IAAL, a post prompts your knowledge here....

[karma1]

What is the name of your state? CA but any state.

Can a judge grant a RO for one person not to attend the same church as the other person? Specifically state that said person cannot attend a church of their choice? I realize there are many ways around this, say, one person goes to another church, or attend at different times...etc....but, can a judge really issue a RO to include church services?
Anxious for your thoughts...

 

[CMSC]

I am curious to the answer as well. Most LDS churches ( I am using this church because I know which post you are reffering to) have so many members and things are done geographically. Sacrament is at different times in many wards, some are too small to have different times.
I haven't figured out why the church is even involved in this because don't RO's specify how far away you have to be from someone? So if they are going to the church, I think it would be safe to say you should go not go there? I don't know! IAAL hurry up and answer this, because it seems pretty cut and dry but I am waiting for you to pull something out that says a judge can't do this!LOL

 

[nextwife]

Or what if the affected parties belong to a religious group that has a very small population in that region? Maybe only one mosque, or one reformed synagog, etc, and both are members? The option of attending elsewhere may not exist in that situation, either. Is one prohibited from attending the only house of their faith that is available?

Additionally, what about situations in which children from a second marriage attend the same school, and some of the same events, as children from a first marriage in which such an order exists? Are children of the second marriage prohibited from having their parent at events because their halfsib may be attending, and therefore the other parent might also attend?

I've also heard of circumstances in which parties out at public places like a concert inadvertantly found themselves seated too close to the other paty. Are they in violation if their season tickets to hockey, or the opera, put them in close proximity to the ex who has the order?

Also curious.

 

[karma1]

ditto next...

and a bump-
where are ya IAAL? enjoying our nice weather and washing the cars? lol

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

What is the name of your state? CA but any state.

Can a judge grant a RO for one person not to attend the same church as the other person? Specifically state that said person cannot attend a church of their choice? I realize there are many ways around this, say, one person goes to another church, or attend at different times...etc....but, can a judge really issue a RO to include church services?
Anxious for your thoughts...

My response:

No, a judge cannot grant an R/O based upon a specific place, like a church, a store, or a Bordello. A judge can only specify a "distance" each person must stay away from each other. To do otherwise would be an unconstitutional abridgement of a person's right to "associate" and to "assemble".

So, all a judge can do is tell someone to, for example, stay 100 feet away from the Petitioner at all times.

IAAL

 

[CMSC]

The question lovingwife posted comes from another post. Now that poster is relating to Arizona and needs law there, someone posted a North Carolina link that specifically says

Requests of the Court: Ask for the ex parte order in order to get into court within 72 hours. Eviction may or may note be granted at this hearing; follow the list and check off the areas of relief requested.

Types of Relief the Judge Can Order:

* Not assault, threaten, follow, harass, etc., victim
* Not assault, threaten, follow, harass, etc. children of relationship
* Award temporary custody
* Order child support
* Award residence to either party
* Order eviction of defendant from residents
* Award vehicle
* ORDER THE DEFENDANT TO STAY AWAY FROM ANY PLACE THE VICTIM ASKS, I.E. WORKPLACE, DAYCARE, SCHOOL, CHURCH, HOME ETC.
* Prohibit the defendant from possessing a firearm
* Order the defendant to attend an abuser treatment program


Now with that in mind, I know you said it is unconstitutional but any idea if it is "allowed" in Arizona?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

The question lovingwife posted comes from another post. Now that poster is relating to Arizona and needs law there, someone posted a North Carolina link that specifically says

Requests of the Court: Ask for the ex parte order in order to get into court within 72 hours. Eviction may or may note be granted at this hearing; follow the list and check off the areas of relief requested.

Types of Relief the Judge Can Order:

* Not assault, threaten, follow, harass, etc., victim
* Not assault, threaten, follow, harass, etc. children of relationship
* Award temporary custody
* Order child support
* Award residence to either party
* Order eviction of defendant from residents
* Award vehicle
* ORDER THE DEFENDANT TO STAY AWAY FROM ANY PLACE THE VICTIM ASKS, I.E. WORKPLACE, DAYCARE, SCHOOL, CHURCH, HOME ETC.
* Prohibit the defendant from possessing a firearm
* Order the defendant to attend an abuser treatment program


Now with that in mind, I know you said it is unconstitutional but any idea if it is "allowed" in Arizona?

======================================

My response:

Of course, when I answer, my answers always have a California bias and slant to them. However, I would definitely appeal any R/O that would impede my right to practice my religion at any time or place. First Amendment rights are inviolate. A lesser, but just as effective, R/O would be a "distance" order - - and that would be the ground of my appeal.

For example, an R/O that would say that the parties cannot attend the same hour of worship or Mass would be just as effective as an R/O that would effectively ban attendance at the church altogether - - wouldn't you say?

IAAL

 

[CMSC]

======================================


For example, an R/O that would say that the parties cannot attend the same hour of worship or Mass would be just as effective as an R/O that would effectively ban attendance at the church altogether - - wouldn't you say?

IAAL

If you are given the option of being able to attend mass at a seperate time. LDS's don't always have that option with sacrament and that is what the post that LW is referring to has questions about. Without going into huge religious depths. There are stakes and inside of those stakes are individual wards. You are assigned a ward. BUT if you live in a small town there is no stake and individual wards, here we have one ward. We all attend at one time. But in a bigger place you would have a stake and different wards and different times to attend sacrament. I sure hope I am explaining this right!LOL

So IF the distance issue applied and there was just one ward and one sacrament time, would htat be unconstitutional to say "stay 100 yds. away"? That is basically saying you can't attend church.

DOes that make any sense at all? It is midnight here and I took cold meds, so I probably made no sense.

And does the right to religion prevail over one's right to be safe?

 

[karma1]

Another attorney I asked said the same thing...

a RO can include a distance and can mention church but it can be appealed under what IAAL said.
Thanks for the replies

 

[CMSC]

Bump.

Well what I want to know is that if that is hte ONLY church and church time and even though it isn't mentioned directly in a court order, can it be appealed? I am still looking into arizona law. I realize that it can be appealed because it is considered unconstitutional, but I would still like to see if Arizona considers it 'okay" because that info would help our poster.

Here, working with a DV program myself, I have seen judges order people to attend church at seperate times. But in many LDS churches there isn't that option.

 

[CMSC]

Okay I am bumping this again cause I want an answer!LOL

 

[Ladynred]

Pardon my butting in here, but I was reading this with interest.

I, personally, would think that under the circumstances mentioned with a small LDS church, that if the RO impinges on a person's First Amendment rights in any way, then the RO would still be illegal. While it probably doesn't happen much, in small towns with even smaller factions of religious groups, its feasible to assume that staying 100 ft away from someone would be close to impossible. I've been in some small churches.. and the entire church building wasn't 100 feet in any dimension !

 

[julbug66]

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/selfserv/Phase_1a/op-pet01.pdf

this is a copy of what AZ uses for ROs. the judge does NOT need to specify distance.
i know this because my husband's ex is required to stay away from me (she is not allowed to contact me in person, by phone, by writing, electronically or by third party), nor may she come near my daughter or my home. nowhere in the order i have is any distance mentioned.
like i said in my other post, since his stbx amended the order and had the church added to the order, something MUST HAVE happened, and she would have to have proof of it, to have a judge put church in there. the guy can fight it, and i think he has a good case since it IS HIS CHURCH TOO.