insurance company is keeping the money

[joe_in_florida]

What is the name of your state? Florida

Last summer, my uncle passed away. I was named his trustee and benificiary to his estate. He had several annuties which sent him a check every month and upon his death, the remaining funds were given to some local charities. He was a charitable man indeed. Several days ago, I received a letter from another company indicating that there was yet another annuity with a value of around 100,000.00 dollars. They were asking that I send them the final two monthly payments that were sent directly to my uncles checking account during the follwing months after his death. this totals 2000.00 dollars that I must pay them as I was the one who had controll over his checking account and affairs.My uncle was very specific about his wishes and they have been followed to the letter, but this most recent company has told me that there is no benificiary to the remaining funds. I find this odd but they said that my Uncle had written the word NONE in the benificiary name. This policy had been in effect for only about a year and during that year, my uncle was in poor health and his mental capacity was failing. What I want to know is, is there anything I can do to salvage some of this money for the family or is it lost for good? It seems unfair that the company gets to keep such a large amount of money. I have not sent the company the repayment of 2000.00 yet, but fully understand that I will have to. Im only delaying for the purpose of finding out my legal position on this matter. Thanks alot to anyone who can offer any advice.

 

[JETX]

My old 'BS-meter' would be going full blast on this one.

Even if the trust account was set up with 'none' for the beneficiary, the trust would still be obligated to pay the trust holder..... or his estate.

As long as you have them expecting money from you, I would ask them to furnish a copy of the trust documents. I wouldn't do anything until you go them and had an opportunity to review and confirm their claims.

As for the 'BS-meter'... have you confirmed that this trust did in fact pay $2000 as they claim?? The reason I ask is, this sounds like a pretty good 'con' to go through the obits and then send a 'demand' for repayment of money supposedly sent to the deceased. I would make darn sure that they did as they claim (ask them to send you a copy of the checks showing deposit endorsements, etc.) BEFORE sending them anything.

After you confirm their claims AND that they in fact sent the funds, come-on back here and let us know.....

 

[joe_in_florida]

thery did send the money

Im sorry if my post sounded confusing. The life insurance company is legit, they did send the funds directly to my uncles checking account. I have reveiwed the bank statements and there were direct deposits made to the account in the amount they are requesting. Allow me to quote from the actual letter to better explain. " Contract number xxxx provided for monthly payments of 1033.00 to the deceased for life with all payments ceasing at death. Therefore, the payment dated july 2002 was the final payment. We will require the return of the august and september payments totaling 2066.00"
I should have noted the credit on his account but when he passed away, I was overwhelmed by all the stuff I had to do. My uncle had a net worth of over a million dollars and it has all gone to charity with the exception of the house which he left me and about seven thousand in his checking account. Now Im not a greedy man, I made sure all his wishes were carried out, and watched as all that money went to help others. Im not complaining about that at all. My concern here is the fact that there is none listed as the benificiary. It just does not make sense. I assure you however, it is a legit company and I just am not sure what to do. I am the trustee of the estate documented by a living trust my uncle had drawn up several years prior to his death. Should I see a lawyer and if so, is it likely that the insurance company would want to settle?

 

[A.J. IV]

OT

Joe, my question is definitely off the topic of insurance but noticed that your handle is 'In-FL' so you may have an answer.

Short history: I lived in FL from the late 1960s until 1977, first in Tampa, then Lakeland and last back in Tampa - after which I was in Central America, returned in 1979, lived in Indiana - Bloomington - for a period and, in the early 1980s, moved to southern NM, where I live today.

In any event, went to the local motor vehicle dept yesterday in order to renew my drivers license and found this could not be done owing to 'a hold' on my license by FL that, via that State's web site, is shown as two points violations, both during 1977, an address for a house that I sold in 1975, and beyond that, after I had left the state.

Doesn't FL have any such thing as a statute of limitations? Or have budget problems become so severe as to promote such desperate attempts to - I assume - obtain funds by reaching back over thirty years and creation of fictitous violations.

Thanks

 

[Dandy Don]

Please mention the name of the insurance company that held this annuity.

Who was the EXECUTOR for this man's estate or was probate not needed because he had put all of his assets in trust?

It is the executor who needs to know about this little glitch so he/she can decide whether to pursue investigation or legal action--another possible consideration without having to resort to legal action is to file a complaint with your state insurance commissioner about this.

The insurance company issued your uncle the papers about the annuity (sort of like an insurance policy) but you probably did not see those papers in his personal effects. Those papers would have described the terms and conditions of the particular annuity he belonged to.

It seems a bit odd (unless this was insurance company policy) for the insurance company to be taking the position that they get to keep the money instead of paying it out. Your executor should be making the argument that even if he specified NO beneficiary, then under normal conditions/procedures the benefit is to be considered part of his estate, payable to the executor of the estate (if there was an executor), or if there was no executor, then you should immediately file to be the executor so you can have the legal right to claim this asset and get it probated as such.

Be a little bit sneaky and ask someone else (a friend or relative) to express interest by pretending to want to get this exact type of annuity from that insurance company and see what type of paperwork they would send the person making the inquiry, and then you can examine the details to see what the annuity papers say.

You might also want to have a business law attorney or an attorney who specializes in life insurance matters to review case law to see if this type of situation has come up before and what state law has to say about it.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[concerned1]

This sounds like it might be a life only annuity in which the payments stop at the death of the annuitant. In this type of annuity, $xx are deposited and payments are made to the annuitant based on mortality tables. When the annuitant dies, the payments stop. That might be worth looking in to as well.

 

[Dandy Don]

In most annuities, the money provided by the person is given to the annuity company to be invested, but at the end of the annuity the money is supposed to be returned to the person, not kept by the insurance company.

You need to vigorously fight for your rights to this money and you could argue that the decedent would have wanted this money returned to him and his estate for distribution to heirs, not kept by the insurance company, which they aren't normally supposed to do anyway.

 

[joe_in_florida]

I will go see a lawyer

Thank you everyone who has responded to my questions here. I thought all along that something did not seem right with this and now I have some other opinions that agree. I am going to make an appointment with a lawyer for this upcoming week and see if he or she can help. Thanks agin for all the advice that has been offered. Oh yeah, the company name is Sun Life financial!

 

[jcalangian]

a lawyer will want to see the annuity documents....call the Sun Life and ask them to immediately fax the papers so an attorney can review them if they wish their claim to be considered

 

[concerned1]

Just so no one thinks I am off my rocker, there is an annuity product out there that is a life only annuity. For what situations they are the best choice, I don't know. But with that type of annuity, you put money into the annuity and the company pays you for the course of your life. You are betting that you are going to get more payments than the money you invested and the company is betting that you will die before the money is used up. When you die, no money goes to a beneficiary. To me, that sounds like that may be the situation. If he is able to contact the insurance company and ask the kind of annuity, that may provide the answer.

 

[ShyCat]

concerned1 is definitely not crazy. There are also annuities that will pay a set amount to a beneficiary if death occurs (and payments stop) within a set term, such as ten years. If the annuitant lives past the term, the payments continue as before but there is no death benefit to a beneficiary.

 

[HomeGuru]

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[joe_in_florida]

concerned1 was right

I hired a lawyer to contact sun life and get the documents and to reveiw them and within several weeks, I had the info. It was a life annuity. I just can not imagine why my uncle set this up as he was 74 and in poor health. I suspect his mental health was not 100% either and it is sad how these things happen. My Uncle was a very uptight, nervous all the time, type person and I can just envision a company rep steering him very easily. Life goes on but my faith in humanity drops a few pegs. I thank everyone here for responding and helping.