Intellectual property of nursery rhymes translations

[beaniede]

Hello,

I would like to create an iOS/Android app with nursery rhymes for children. I am not sure what are the legal implications in using the lyrics.
For example, there are many different lyrics for London Bridge out there, does each version belong to the person who published it ?
Also I would like to translate the songs in different languages. Can I just use any translation I find on the Internet ? Or do I need to ask permission to the person who translated it ? Buy it even ?

Thanks for your help!

Beanie DE

 

[tranquility]

Most nursery rhymes are in the public domain by now. However, the "translations" may not be. Since translating from one language to another is not an exact science (Google a phrase to another language, and then another and then back to the original for an example.), there is interpretation and judgment involved and such a translation would be protected if it was recent enough.

Testing edit:
Although a simple phrase like, "I would like a funsucker please." can go from English, to Spanish, to French and back to English without a change.

 

[quincy]

Me gustaria tener un Funsucker, por favor.

A translation of an existing work is considered a derivative, and creating derivatives are one of the exclusive rights held by a copyright holder.

With public domain materials, however - and this includes old folk and fairy tales, myths and nursery rhymes - anyone is free to use the material in its original form as these materials are no longer covered by copyright. You can copy the original work, create derivatives of the work, publish the copies, sell the copies, all without obtaining permission or authorization from the original creator of the work.

Here comes some "howevers:"

There can be other rights lingering in public domain works, such as trademark rights or publicity rights. In addition, some adaptations of a public domain work may have copyright protection. This is often the case with new translations of old works in the public domain.

So, while you can be free to use a public domain work (an old nursery rhyme) in its original form, to use a translation of this public domain work may require that you get permission (and perhaps pay a license fee to use the translation) from the translator. A direct copy of a translated version of a public domain work could be infringing on the copyright in the translated version.

And one more area of concern could be that many works in the public domain in the United States may NOT be in the public domain in other countries.

It is always wise and advised to seek the help of an intellectual property specialist before plunging ahead with any venture that involves the use of another's material, even when this material is purportedly in the public domain, to ensure you are not trampling on anyone else's rights.

Good luck.

 

[beaniede]

Paid translation then?

Thanks a lot for your answers!

So what if I pay a professional translator to translate the nursery rhymes? Can he/she translate it as it is already found out there without getting in trouble? Are there that many variations of "Old Mc Donald has a farm" without changing the concept of the song?

On the other hand, if I want to find who originally translated the nursery rhymes, do you have any idea where I could start looking? Ar there any directories out there?

 

[quincy]

Perhaps one of the best ways to collect your nursery rhymes and avoid copyright issues is to locate old English collections of rhymes that are in the public domain and then select rhymes from these collections to come up with your own collection. You can find printings of nursery rhymes dating as far back as 1570 in England. These would require no translation for you and you could use these rhymes to create your own translations (by hiring a professional or whatever).

What you need to avoid primarily with these very old rhymes will be copying someone else's selection of rhymes (the collections of which can be copyrighted).

There are several different versions of nursery rhymes, originating as they did from the oral telling of the rhymes from one generation to the next (often with generational twists made in the rhymes). These oral rhymes were put into print later and variations in the rhymes can reflect the areas where they were committed originally to paper. I have no clue how to locate the original translators of the nursery rhymes, although an internet search may turn up something.

There are several sites devoted to the history of nursery rhymes, by the way. One I found that seemed pretty good is a UK site: http://www.rhymes.org.uk/index.htm.

Although I am not seeing your venture as described here as an extremely risky one, it is always wise to have everything checked out personally by a professional in your area. A professional in your area could see areas of legal concern that we cannot spot from here.

Good luck.

 

[beaniede]

Once again, thanks for taking the time to help me with this.
I think I will do the following: come up with my own selection of verses as suggested and then have them translated in the target language by a professional translator. I figured that even if I managed to source the translations I find out there (which will be difficult), I would also have to pay for the right to use them in the app anyway.
Best,