Is it legal for the town to do this? Massachusetts Town 2, different matter

[Tire]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Can a town or state charge for a permit to fish commercially, and then charge you a fee to access the water? I assume that excise taxes aren't collected from commercial fishermen for a reason, would this reasoning also apply to certain "tax like" fees?

 

[justalayman]

How is the state (and you were asked which State is involved) or city charging you to access the water?

 

[Tire]

A ramp use fee

 

[quincy]

A ramp use fee

Tire, you can keep all of your "Is it legal for a Massachusetts town to do this?" questions in a single thread. Thanks.

A question on the ramp use fee: Is the ramp that charges the fee the ONLY ramp available for fishermen to use, or are there other ramps in the area?

I know in Michigan there are both paid ramps and free ramps available to boaters and fishermen so that all can access the water. And, again for Michigan, I know that charging both for fishing permits and for lake access via ramps is legal.

I have not had the chance to check out Massachusetts but offhand I do not see any reason why your state would be not be allowed to do the same. If I locate anything specific to your state, however, I will post back.

As to a building that is leased where fishermen can pay for a space in the building to sell their fish: I am not seeing why this would be illegal. There are many places where you must pay to sell. Perhaps I am missing a part of this question of yours?

 

[Tire]

"As to a building that is leased where fishermen can pay for a space in the building to sell their fish: I am not seeing why this would be illegal. There are many places where you must pay to sell. Perhaps I am missing a part of this question of yours?"


Quincy, the fishermen are not getting a space in the building to sell their fish, its not a market, the town permits get them to right to sell to a single dealer who leases the facility from the town.

The fees are supposedly to raise revenue for anticipated repairs, crowd control from seal watchers, and as a deterrent to limit the number of people who will sell there...

 

[Tire]

"A question on the ramp use fee: Is the ramp that charges the fee the ONLY ramp available for fishermen to use, or are there other ramps in the area?"

The law being proposed is new so I am not sure of all the specifics,,, I will ask again when I can adequately provide answers.

 

[justalayman]

So I'll ask this;

Why do you think it might be illegal for a government entity to charge to use a ramp the municipality owns and maintains? A ramp use fee is not a fee to use or access the water. It is a fee to use the ramp. If you do not want to pay that fee launch your boat elsewhere. You are free to float your boat.

As to a fee/permit/license to fish; that is an entirely separate matter and all states I know of charge for such a permit/license/fee to fish.

 

[Tire]

So I'll ask this;

Why do you think it might be illegal for a government entity to charge to use a ramp the municipality owns and maintains? A ramp use fee is not a fee to use or access the water. It is a fee to use the ramp. If you do not want to pay that fee launch your boat elsewhere. You are free to float your boat.

As to a fee/permit/license to fish; that is an entirely separate matter and all states I know of charge for such a permit/license/fee to fish.

Call it what you will but ultimately they are making you pay to access the water, or float boat... It's my understanding (or misunderstanding) that fees are supposed to be used to pay for costs of services rendered, NOT anticipated costs. If the ramps are paid for, and costs have been recovered, would further fees be legal? Fees are not supposed to raise revenue or they are taxes....

 

[Tire]

Also as to the launch your boat elsewhere comment. The town specifically forbids landing shellfish in a different town therefore you have no choice but to use the ramp.

 

[justalayman]

Call it what you will but ultimately they are making you pay to access the water, or float boat... It's my understanding (or misunderstanding) that fees are supposed to be used to pay for costs of services rendered, NOT anticipated costs. If the ramps are paid for, and costs have been recovered, would further fees be legal? Fees are not supposed to raise revenue or they are taxes....

So this ramp never needs maintenance. Ok.

Here's what you do.

You buy some waterfront property in this town. You then build your own launch ramp. Then thumb your nose at the mayor when you float by their ramp.

 

[quincy]

Also as to the launch your boat elsewhere comment. The town specifically forbids landing shellfish in a different town therefore you have no choice but to use the ramp.

Here is a link to Massachusetts Access Sites, who manages them, and who can access them:

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dfg/fba/access-sites.html

Many are concrete ramps so these would probably require more attention than the gravel ramps.

Fishermen in Massachusetts must acquire special permits to take, land or sell certain types of fish and these fish must be sold only to licensed dealers. This is not unlike Michigan, especially similar to Michigan hunting permits and licenses.

I am still not finding anything illegal in what you are describing - although I can understand your complaints about having to pay all sorts of licenses and fees to fish. We hear complaints about these same things in Michigan from hunters and fishermen.

Perhaps you can address your concerns with your town officials.

 

[Tire]

After reviewing the selectmens meeting it appears to be a Waterway Use Fee, per boat. Can a commercial fishmerman claim he is exempt from having to pay this fee since he is entitled to shellfish per his permit? Shellfish and fish are located IN WATER how are you expected to use the permit without buying a second permit?

 

[quincy]

After reviewing the selectmens meeting it appears to be a Waterway Use Fee, per boat. Can a commercial fishmerman claim he is exempt from having to pay this fee since he is entitled to shellfish per his permit? Shellfish and fish are located IN WATER how are you expected to use the permit without buying a second permit?

I suppose you could claim you are exempt. You can claim pretty much anything.

But I don't see where you are being prevented from fishing. There are other access points which allow you to shellfish under the terms of your permit. These access points might not be as convenient to you but I didn't see anywhere where you HAD to access the water using only the one ramp.

That said, you might just have to accept that the permits are only one of the many business costs one incurs as a commercial fisherman.

If I locate anything that might help you, I will post back but, so far, I am not seeing anything illegal in what your Massachusetts town is doing.

 

[Tire]

I suppose you could claim you are exempt. You can claim pretty much anything.

But I don't see where you are being prevented from fishing. There are other access points which allow you to shellfish under the terms of your permit. These access points might not be as convenient to you but I didn't see anywhere where you HAD to access the water using only the one ramp.

Thank you for the feedback first of all, I guess I didn't convey well enough that the fee is a single fee to access ALL boat ramps in town EVERY RAMP.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Thank you for the feedback first of all, I guess I didn't convey well enough that the fee is a single fee to access ALL boat ramps in town EVERY RAMP.

The question you asked was, "Is it legal?"

The answer is: yes. Towns are allowed to charge fees for using all sorts of things, including public boat ramps. Whether you view it as a fee or a tax, you had representation in the form of your board of selectmen.

If you are dissatisfied with the job that your representatives are doing, then make sure to be more vocal, and vote in people you find to be more satisfactory.

P.S. I live next to a public boat ramp. And near a private boat ramp.