Is the possesion of a Bill of Sale enough to show proof of ownership for a vehicle ?

[Missed101]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I recently purchased a car in North Carolina that I planned on having shipped to Florida. In December 2013, I made similar arrangements and had another vehicle shipped from North Carolina. The auto transporter that I used the first time required that the title would have to be present with the vehicle while in transit. On May 17th, before and during the purchase process, I advised the seller that the car would be picked up by an auto transporter and that the signed title would be given to the shipper. A Bill of Sale was filled out also with the vehicles VIN #, Make, Model, Purchase price, Name of Seller and date of sale. I have tried but have not been able to reach the seller since 6/2/14. Yesterday when a relative from out of state called using a different area code and phone number, the seller answered and promised to give me a call to arrange shipping. As of this morning I still have not had a response and will have to get the Yadkin County magistrate involved. Is the Bill of Sale enough to prove that I have ownership of the car and are the text messages proof that the seller knew the car was to be picked up ? Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[justalayman]

it's rebuttable proof.


in other words, it will depend on the response from the owner if questioned by anybody with any sort of authority to require and answer.

but based on your choice of shippers, it would appear that is not enough for them to accept the contract to transport the vehicle. That is their choice and entirely up to them and is not a matter of law.

 

[Missed101]

So if I show up with my Bill of Sale, the document by itself is not enough for Law Enforcement to require the owner to hand over the vehicle and signed title. The issue with the Auto Transporter requiring a title is no longer valid since I had to find another company to move the vehicle. Now the issue is that the seller has the title in his posession and I cannot contact him to arrange shipping per previous arrrangement.

 

[Zigner]

So if I show up with my Bill of Sale, the document by itself is not enough for Law Enforcement to require the owner to hand over the vehicle and signed title. The issue with the Auto Transporter requiring a title is no longer valid since I had to find another company to move the vehicle. Now the issue is that the seller has the title in his posession and I cannot contact him to arrange shipping per previous arrrangement.

You might get the local law enforcement to encourage the seller to follow through, but they can't force him to. This is a civil matter.

 

[Missed101]

The purchase price for the vehicle is under $ 2500. Would this be a matter for small claims court and what sort of documentation would I need to present in order to prove my case if it comes to that ?

 

[Zigner]

The purchase price for the vehicle is under $ 2500. Would this be a matter for small claims court and what sort of documentation would I need to present in order to prove my case if it comes to that ?

What sort of documentation do you have? I would consider all documentation relevant to the case to be, well, relevant to the case.

ETA: Yes, it's a small-claims matter. You will need to pursue the matter in North Carolina.

 

[Ohiogal]

You might get the local law enforcement to encourage the seller to follow through, but they can't force him to. This is a civil matter.

She might also request local law enforcement to run the vin to see if the seller actually owns it or if the car is stolen.

 

[Missed101]

The only physical documentation I have is the Bill of Sale itself. I do have text messages that confirm the purchase price, sellers address, and trying to arrange for the seller to be present when the shipper arrived. My one concern is if the seller applied for a lost title and the sold the car out from under me. Would the aforementioned documentation be hard to use as proof of ownership ? Thanks everyone for your advice so far.

 

[Ohiogal]

The only physical documentation I have is the Bill of Sale itself. I do have text messages that confirm the purchase price, sellers address, and trying to arrange for the seller to be present when the shipper arrived. My one concern is if the seller applied for a lost title and the sold the car out from under me. Would the aforementioned documentation be hard to use as proof of ownership ? Thanks everyone for your advice so far.

The title proves ownership. Does the seller even OWN the title? Does the bill of sale have the vin?

 

[Missed101]

She might also request local law enforcement to run the vin to see if the seller actually owns it or if the car is stolen.

VIN number is legit and not registered as stolen per Yadkin County DMV. VIN number checked out from title to vehicle upon inspection before purchase. Address where car was purchased was different from the one listed on the title. It is very possible that the seller is not the name listed on the title since seller advised he just recently got the car but had to sell.

 

[Missed101]

The title proves ownership. Does the seller even OWN the title? Does the bill of sale have the vin?

Bill of Sale was filled out by the seller and includes the make, model, VIN #, purchase price and purchase date.

 

[justalayman]

It is very possible that the seller is not the name listed on the title since seller advised he just recently got the car but had to sell.

It is very possible? If you think it is possible, you have a whole bunch more problems.


sounds like you need to be verifying the identity of the seller before you give them money.

and if the guy you bought it from is not the title owner, he cannot sell the car to you.

sounds like you might have known this was not on the up and up from the beginning. If so, Google "clean hands doctrine" and see where you would stand if you have to go to court.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I concur with all the aforementioned and will add that in addition to the title showing ownership, personal property tax is due the state of NC. Even if the person who sold it, owns it, they may not be able to convey title because of taxes due.

 

[Missed101]

It is very possible? If you think it is possible, you have a whole bunch more problems.


sounds like you need to be verifying the identity of the seller before you give them money.

and if the guy you bought it from is not the title owner, he cannot sell the car to you.

sounds like you might have known this was not on the up and up from the beginning. If so, Google "clean hands doctrine" and see where you would stand if you have to go to court.

Just going over all of the possibilities in my head. As for the clean hands doctrine, the seller introduced himself over the phone and in person as the name listed on the title. I should have checked his ID and took some other precautions but didn't. Recently got off the phone with the local PD who will stop by his home to see if they can make contact with the seller. They did advise that they the most they can do is be present when I attempt to pick up the car but anything further than that is a civil matter. Stupid hurts.