Is this Breach of Contract?

[ThaUFO]

What is the name of your state? Minnesota

I signed a year long lease last year(2004), and before signing the lease the resident manager said that because I had been a really good tenant the previous two years, the company was going to reduce my rental amount by$75 a month for six(6) months, and I was handed a list of things that the manager said I could choose two of any items to have installed in my townhouse at no charge if I signed another year lease. I chose to have a water softener, and a storm door installed. Two(2) months went by and I hadn't had anything installed so I called the manager and asked when they would be installed. I didn't get a really clear answer and instead was told that they'd get back to me. That manager got fired or whatever, and when I inquired to the new manager about the softner and door, showing him the contract I signed to have them installed, he said he's get back to me. Two weeks went by and nothing from the manager. So I called the company and after talking to three different people in the office, everybody played dumb and said they knew nothing about such a contract. They said they'd get back to me , but instead told the manager to take care of it which he called me back and told me that they would install it within the next two(2) weeks. Meanwhile, that manager left and the new one was an interim manager and when I confronted her about it, she also said she'd get back to me about it. All in all, after seven and a half months went by, I finally got the softener. But no door.

 

[shortbus]

Yes they breached the contract. But what are your damages? None.

You need damages to make a claim.

 

[ThaUFO]

Yes they breached the contract. But what are your damages? None.

You need damages to make a claim.

A breach of contract means that one party didn't completely follow through with what was in the agreement. In this case, I signed an agreement to have a water softener and a storm door installed if I renew my lease. I signed the lease but the company didn't honor their part of the agreement. Damage or damages of any kind wherever you came up with that from, has nothing to do with this situation. They installed the water softener but not the door. They did not honor the agreement. Therefore they are in breach of the agreement. And you don't make a claim when a contract is breached. You try to reach a settlement and if one cannot be compromised, then you sue them for breach of contract. If you really read this question you would have seen that the ceiling , if that is what you are basing your reply on was just one of the examples of how this company neglected to see that a repair needed to be tended to and wasn't and what a leaking drain that wasn't tended to only accented the problem more and more until the ceiling fell from the weight of the water. From one problem being neglected, two were created. Thanks for your reply, but you didn't read the question thoroughly or didn't fully understand what you read and where and what was breached, but thanks for the try anyhow.

 

[tigger22472]

And how do you expect small claims court to compensate you? shortbus was correct, you had no damages, no harm was done to you, you were injured in no way.

 

[ThaUFO]

Here I edited my question so you could plainly see the breach and why I asked the question if it was a breach of contract. And here is another explaination. . . say I signed an agreement, a contract, a piece of paper with my signature on it and yours entering into a promise for X amount of dollars to paint you "whole" house. But after getting the money from you, I only paint half the house and don't come back and paint the rest. How do you come to any conclusion about injuries and claims and whatnot? Of course I was not hurt, of course no damage was done to place a claim, because it isn't a case of personal injury. It is a case of a company contracting to do one thing and it doesn't fulfill what it agreed to do. Where does this talk about injuries and damage come into the equation here I don't know. Thanks but I think you also didn't really read it which is why I condensed it so you see it. And besides, I only came back here for a laugh and see if I got another off the wall response like the one from the guy before you and I did. I wrote this same question on another site and got a response from a "real" lawyer at a law firm and he made no mention of injuries and how I wasn't hurt. But so be it. . . If you leave me another response and call me names like so many other people like to do on this site, it's your user name they will see and I'm sure if you leave them a response, they'll know your response holds no credit and no sound advice and probably just laugh and not reply to your reply so you can just come back and call them names because you can't read. So have at it, I'll keep this question posted and not reply to anything further you or anybody else has to say and just come back from time to time for a laugh. So have at it. . . I'm sure you will since you are invited to do so. . .

 

[tigger22472]

Ok.. do I need to type smaller words so you understand this? First off NO ONE said it wasn't breach, what was said was there were no damages. Now read on...

"The most common legal remedy for breach of contract is a suit for damages, usually compensatory damages. This is the amount of money it would take to put you in as good a position as if there had not been a breach of contract. "
(http://public.findlaw.com/lemon/newcontent/consumerlaw/chp15_d.html)

Did you have a storm door before? Do you or did you have one when you left?

Now Compensatory Damages are REAL damages. You were NOT damaged.

Here's the definition of nominal damages: ' Nominal damages, awarded when you win your case but you have not proved much of a loss. The court may award you a token amount.'
(http://public.findlaw.com/lemon/newcontent/consumerlaw/chp15_d.html)

Don't get excited there buddy!! Nominal damages have been known to be $1.00 if awarded.

Reality is you don't live there anymore you are not being damaged nor were you damaged or lose money from the breach. You still very much benefitted. Not only did you get the water heater, you also got 75$ off your rent each month.

Let me guess, you're thinking 'pain and suffering'.. etc... you were harmed by not having the storm door. That would be punitive damages.

'Punitive damages, available if the breaching party's behavior was offensive to the court. Punitive damages are virtually never recovered in a suit for breach of contract, but it may be possible to get punitive damages or some form of statutory damages (legal penalties) under a consumer fraud law or in a suit for fraud.'
(http://public.findlaw.com/lemon/newcontent/consumerlaw/chp15_d.html)

Do you really think that the fact you didn't get a storm door is going to offend the court? You would have to prove, neglect, fraud, and malicious intent.

Get a grip, you moved, you don't live there anymore and you weren't damaged.

 

[shortbus]

"Damages" in the legal sense are not personal injuries, and they are not property damages. As tigger said, damages are the economic loss you have suffered as a result of the other party's failure to perform the contract.

Have a good laugh when your case gets thrown out for failure to state a claim.

 

[K_Law]

I just couldn't help but step in and offer a reply from a REAL lawyer that practices contract law and has done so for over fifteen years, and not just a novice like Mr shortbus is it , and Mr tigger? To begin with it appears that you two only read and interpret what you want out of what you find on the net. How silly, I went to this law site that you left in your reply, and did you two see the word "may" in many of the same sentences that you clearly and boldly outlined the word "vitually never"? It is so one sided of you two to suggest without saying it outright that every case, in every state that involves the word "Contract" is the same and one solution and one answer is the result in every case. There is not just one judge that oversees every case in every state, there are many and that doesn't imply anything except what it says in plain english. There are different reasons in every case, and even though one site says that there are vitrually no awards in contract cases is so untrue and couldn't be further from the truth. I have had many cases where awards were granted, and no damage was shown, no injuries were inflicted, and surely in no case were pain and suffering ever mentioned as you may have thought UFO might be thinking. Did you take the time to read on in that site you posted where it said that cases are won in court and not in the home? So where did you get your law degree anyway and in what state did you pass a bar exam where you can blatantly claim that your advice, which is only that, is something someone should adhere to and find as the sole answer to their case? Every case is different and every judge is different, and the outcome of every case is different plain and simple. The avenues in which this internet page you put forth in your reply is vague and does not explore more than it outlines, a summary if you will of what you "may" expect and what you "may" not. It does not in any way get into the facts of any particular case period. Now whether or not a person sustains an injury, or damage in any monetary amount is moot. What is revelent is whether the company or person who initiated the contract was sincere in it's attempts to honor the agreement. If it were as simple as you two make it seem, there would be no such thing as contracts and people would not sign any because it would be worthless to do so. In this case, the company only had two things to do, install a water softener and a storm door. Chances are the company didn't "buy" the softener but merely rented it for maybe $20 a month. Never would a company "buy" one because it is not cost effective. The storm door would be something they would buy, and what would that cost,$75 at the least at your local Home Depot? So why didn't they do it and get it over with? And before UFO shortened his question to the point, there were other things that the company neglected to do outside the aggreement. A ceiling that collapsed, a fireplace which is an amenity and a part of the townhouse in which the owner surely pointed out as something nice to have on cold winter nights, but it didn't work and only during the last two months of UFO's occupancy did they repair it.These things show a neglect on the companies part and are entered into evidence as signs that the company has issues in fulfilling a rental agreement which states clearly in everybodys lease everywhere in this country that the landlord will see to it that substantial repairs would be made by the landlord. The bathroom was above the garage and I'm sure that cold air was leaking up through that hole and making the bathroom cold in the winter. The ceiling collapsed and that gets into a code issue. The dollar amount that UFO obtained was outside the agreement and therefore to say what you stated that he got $75 off the rent every month does not in any way coincide with the agreement in any way shape or form. They could have easily also agreed to wipe his butt for the entire year and it would not have any significance whatsoever with the lack of compliance with the agreement that was signed. The company lacks bad management skills or lacks the proper judgement in hiring a manager to look after their property but that also does not excuse the company from not fulfilling it's obligations to adhere to the agreement in full. There was a half hearted attempt to complete the agreement as there was to make the repairs to UFO's townhouse. Even when he wrote and said he explained to the company that the drain was leaking , they came out and fixed the drain but left a gaping hole in the garage ceiling. Again, a half hearted attempt to see that things were properly seen to. And the fact that UFO does not live in the townhouse does not rescind the agreement and one does not just add up what they got and what they didn't and say to ones self, well , I did get this and I did get that, so I guess I can excuse this. That is so sad that someone would even think of doing such a thing. Anybody in a intelligent frame of mind would want exactly what they signed on to get even if it were something as simple as a storm door!!! Is that really what Mr tigger and shortbus really do when they sign contracts? Would they really? And if so, why would they in any frame of mind expect someone else to think that way? It's totally insane to sign a contract and not expect to get what it is they signed the contract to get! Why sign? To UFO though. . . you do have a case of breach and the company is going to have a hard time to just enter a simple apology and expect to get away with it. That is something that is widely unacceptable in any court in this country. They blatantly have shown neglect to adhere to the rental agreement and also to the agreement that they came and solicited to you before you signed the rental agreement. They ageed to deduct $450 from your year lease but denied to buy a $75 door, where is the business sense there? That's like patching a tire and leaving the nail in it! When you go to court, if you choose to take this to court, which I strongly advise you to do as a legal contract specialist, let the company rep who is there on the companies behalf, let that person talk first, let that person say everything that they need to say, and before going to court, prepare a statement in the form of a letter and read that letter from top to bottom describing the neglect to the repairs to your townhouse, take some pictures of the ceiling as proof, call the company who installed the softener to verify that the softener is indeed rented and for how much, and when it was installed, and then in your words decribe how you feel being betrayed by this company, which is the sole intention of your case being brought to court. As a monetary amount for breaching this agreement, I would say an equivilent to one months rent would suffice, and I can honestly say from experience, that nine out of ten times, the judge will weigh the case based on the neglect and breach on the other levels of your rental agreement as well, and that there are issues to be addressed by this company, one thing the judge will certainly take into consideration, and in most cases there is sufficient cause to award this amount.

 

[tigger22472]

I assume somewhere in there you said something important. I began reading it and your take on the situation but with out proper paragraph breaks it was difficult to read. I thought they taught writing skills in law school also... at least mine is.

 

[K_Law]

That is another weak reply Mr tigger. Actually what I wrote is just a basic confutation. . . and you do know what that means right? Actually it's something you will learn how to do if you want to bark like the big dogs. Common sense is a huge part of being a good lawyer. And by taking the high road instead of the low road like you did when you gave your first response to UFO, you really showed your inexperience and lack of reading skills to really read what the problem was here. I read it once and knew exactly what the problem was and whether I broke the reply into paragraphs is laughable. the question that UFO asked was if what he wrote was Breach of Contract, and I didn't read anywhere in the question where he wanted me or anybody else to break the reply into paragraphs. And how come you could see that I didn't break my reply into paragraphs, but you couldn't see the word "may" used at least a half dozen times per paragraph in those sites you pulled quotes from that you so eloquently highlighted??? Surely you read the every word to see if it would truly apply to UFOs question right??? By your answer it clearly didn't appear that you did. If indeed you are going to law school which, is debatable by your first reply to this question by UFO, reading skills are even more an issue than writing skills when practicing law. And if I may enlighten you on something here for a second, If I was practicing law in Minnesota, I would take UFOs case and be able to get him at the very least $6k from the company who breached his agreement, where as, you would have gotten nothing if you were a lawyer because you didn't take the time to understand what the problem was. And yes. . . I did say something substantial and it was professional advice as for yours, well . . . lets just say nothing more about it. The facts speak for themselves. Although I'm sure you were expecting some sort of childish reply to your sarcasm, let me say just one more thing. . .
Most people who are indeed witty, know how to be tactful when they make a point, and don't need to stoop to sarcasm.

 

[tigger22472]

That is another weak reply Mr tigger. Actually what I wrote is just a basic confutation. . . and you do know what that means right? Actually it's something you will learn how to do if you want to bark like the big dogs. Common sense is a huge part of being a good lawyer. And by taking the high road instead of the low road like you did when you gave your first response to UFO, you really showed your inexperience and lack of reading skills to really read what the problem was here. I read it once and knew exactly what the problem was and whether I broke the reply into paragraphs is laughable. the question that UFO asked was if what he wrote was Breach of Contract, and I didn't read anywhere in the question where he wanted me or anybody else to break the reply into paragraphs. And how come you could see that I didn't break my reply into paragraphs, but you couldn't see the word "may" used at least a half dozen times per paragraph in those sites you pulled quotes from that you so eloquently highlighted??? Surely you read the every word to see if it would truly apply to UFOs question right??? By your answer it clearly didn't appear that you did. If indeed you are going to law school which, is debatable by your first reply to this question by UFO, reading skills are even more an issue than writing skills when practicing law. And if I may enlighten you on something here for a second, If I was practicing law in Minnesota, I would take UFOs case and be able to get him at the very least $6k from the company who breached his agreement, where as, you would have gotten nothing if you were a lawyer because you didn't take the time to understand what the problem was. And yes. . . I did say something substantial and it was professional advice as for yours, well . . . lets just say nothing more about it. The facts speak for themselves. Although I'm sure you were expecting some sort of childish reply to your sarcasm, let me say just one more thing. . .
Most people who are indeed witty, know how to be tactful when they make a point, and don't need to stoop to sarcasm.

Actually No I wasn't looking for a childish reply from you to start with and secondly YES I do know how to read, TYVM. Again, the answer is yes about if I read those websites as well as many other things on breaching of contracts. I still am unable to read your first reply however due to the writing skills, so once again I didn't learn anything from that.

However, I do have a question for you as although you didn't take my advice from the last time at least you made this reply shorter. Just how do you figure if you took this case you would recover 6k? Please, because I'm dying to know this. If this is the case then it seems that my professor hasn't taught anything this term and is letting me slide with an A as well as has lied to me about my grasp of the concept.

 

[K_Law]

Curiosity killed the cat. . . and I'm surprised that I have to help you with this but. . . first of all, if you have brought this up with your professor, and if this professor is who you said he is, then he knows that he teaches law and law in it's general form, something like a doctor, or even simpler to understand an auto mechanic. Anyway, let's go with the auto mechanic as an example. You go to school and learn how to fix cars, you get the overall picture of how that car works, and can fix most nomatter what goes wrong with them, but not all, because there are problems with a car that you didn't learn about in school. It would be impossible to learn every aspect of law, and know everything about every aspect of every law, and render a precise and truly accurate summation of every aspect because the human mind is just not that big to hold all that information. I learned that in sixth grade for gods sake! The same applies to a doctor or a lawyer. You can teach law and not know every aspect and every in and out. Just out of curiosity, how many lawyers did you see in the OJ Simpson trial for instance? One?! And there were many renowned law professors that got on CNN and the court channel that offered their views and many of them concluded that he would be found guilty which we all know wasn't the end result. You can quote law precedures all day but court cases are like the weather, they are unpredictable but if you specialize in a certain area of law that pertains to that particular cases needs, the chances of that case succeeding in court greatly increases. To pass a bar exam and say that you can take on any case because now you are a lawyer is completely false. And you will agree because that is simple common sense. If you are going to law school, then you know full well that there are different areas of law to study, and that they are there for people to who want to specialize in those certain areas of law. Your law professor knows full well that cases are not only won by showing damages, injuries, or with punitive damges being asked for. There have been cases won for years on the sole basis as common sense, and what is truly right. I can quote you a case I won only six months ago, where little man A signed over the exclusive rights to a patent to big company B, but big company B failed to honor the royalty clause specifically granting a 2% return on this patent if the product was produced. I took the case , and without proving that the company was with malicious intent, without showing that there was an injury in any form to little man A, it was won pure and simply through showing the company neglected to and deliberately withheld the 2% for their own profit gain. They spent over three times the amount to not have to pay the 2% to my client. Why? Who knows but that case was purely won on neglect to pay and therefore the contract was breached. My jury awarded little man A the 2% plus distress compensation for having to sue the company, loss of wages to pursue the case in open court, misc court costs and fees, and not to mention my 33% fee which was included in the amount we were seeking in damages. The company lost 62% of their profits on the product, and their lawyers thought that we didn't have much more of a case than simple breach of contract. Their out of court settlement was tempting to take, and I knew after sitting with the lawyers representing the company during a meeting between us that they weren't just ambulance chasers and were going to hang on to the bitter end , and they were going to use some pretty unethical methods to twist the words of that contract to try and sway the jury, but we got more in the outcome. When my case was reviewed by the firms senior partners, they were floored by how I won the case, and through the means in which I presented it, what I did, and how I did it. And I'll tell ya, it was all about common sense, and how I presented it to the jury. Common sense proved neglect, neglect proved malice, and although their was nothing said about fraud, I truly feel that the jury felt that the attorneys representing company B were trying to decieve them as I pointed out in my closing statement several times. Not once did I ever mention the word neglect, malice, or fraud during the entire court precedings, nor did I use words that were associated with those words either. Common sense is a powerful tool in court, and how you display it will win you many cases Mr tigger. When you build a case, you do not only build a case based upon what is solely up front and boldly in front of you. Surely you have learned that if you are getting A's in your class. But there are things that you can pick out of what's in front of you and use that as a stepping stone, if you will, to build it upon. There is complete and utter neglect shown on the part of the company UFO was leasing his townhouse from and anybody with, at the very least a third grade education could see and decipher that there was. Now, I wasn't taking anything away from you by saying that, I merely pointed out that you made a rash decision by proclaiming and rendering your opinion to UFOs case based upon basic law. Just because you read that "hardly ever this" or "virtually never that", doesn't mean that it "may" not happen here or "may" not happen there, which whoever wrote those quotes was careful and proper when they added the word "may" clearly showing that it was not a clear cut case one way or another. A simple example is that when they say it's going to rain, does it always? Now if I were to take on Mr UFOs case which isn't that difficult of a case where even he couldn't take it on and at the very least win it based on morality in small claims court, but I could show malicious intent as well as neglect. And as you can see above, after shortening up the story that he initally wrote, I cannot point out and debate clearly how I could do that. Why not email UFO and get him to post a full and precise, to the best of his knowledge, of what took place during that entire year and I will do that for you.

 

[K_Law]

Actually No I wasn't looking for a childish reply from you to start with and secondly YES I do know how to read, TYVM. Again, the answer is yes about if I read those websites as well as many other things on breaching of contracts. I still am unable to read your first reply however due to the writing skills, so once again I didn't learn anything from that.

However, I do have a question for you as although you didn't take my advice from the last time at least you made this reply shorter. Just how do you figure if you took this case you would recover 6k? Please, because I'm dying to know this. If this is the case then it seems that my professor hasn't taught anything this term and is letting me slide with an A as well as has lied to me about my grasp of the concept.

And please Mr tigger, before you again reply and become a pot calling the kettle black, please reread your own statements and how you worded them. If writing is as important as you said it is, and if you are being taught this in your class, shouldn't you be able to therefore show it and proudly display it? I think so.

 

[tigger22472]

Seeing as I was very interested in seeing what you had to 'teach' me and you didn't listen to the strong suggestion I made about breaking into paragraphs I actually copied and pasted your response so that it was easier to read. I read every single word and honestly I didn't learn anything I didn't already know.

The case you said you won six months ago is totally understandable. The plaintiff entered into that contract and the company was required to you give him 2% of the sales. The plaintiff sued for the 2% plus all the other damages he suffered, and won. That was a just verdict. However, you failed to show how that even came close to the situation stated by the original poster here.

Secondly you stated in a post above, "I would take UFOs case and be able to get him at the very least $6k from the company who breached his agreement, " yet never stated on what grounds.

As far as punitive damages in a breach of contract I too agree that they are possible to get but honestly not in this case. There is a case within the courts here in Indiana however that I do feel it's possible as a company was to sell exclusively to another in this state and instead sold directly to the customers of the of the other company. That is clear and convincing malious and neglect.

Now, is it or is it not the goal of the courts when a breach of contract is brought to them to return the plaintiff to which the position they were in if there was not a contract to begin with? How can you say this poster was damaged, especially to the extent of 6K!!

 

[You Are Guilty]

I'm waiting to hear where the $6k came from as well. (Maybe the storm door was made out of pure silver?) Especially since it seems that Klaw has actually read the contract at issue and knows all its ins and outs already.