Issue with Security Deposit-what's fair? (CA)

[angel222]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Here's the scoop...I'm the tenant. I am under lease until May 2010. In Aug. 09, I gave notice to the landlords that we are under extreme financial difficulty (we are filing bankruptcy) and wanted to know what fees/penalties would be assessed to break our lease if we needed to move into something less expensive. They told me they understood and that it would be fine and to just keep them updated on the status of our rental search. Great....(of course this was verbal and I didn't get it in writing).

In September, they were notified that we found a place and they did a rental verification for us. During this time, they were posting on craigslist-which they said is their only advertising they do for these condos-and havent' gotten any "bites" yet for the unit to be re-rented. We couldn't move into that first unit they did a rental verification for.

In October, we found another-they did another rental verification. We gave our 30 days notice (Oct. 13th-Nov. 12th). The night that I gave notice, one of the owners called me to tell me that they would not let us out of our lease and we are required to stay there until they found new renters. Well, unfortunately, we couldn't afford it (which is entirely the reason we were moving-loved the place just couldn't afford it any longer).

On Nov. 7th, we moved out. I called the office approx. October 29th to tell them that we will be moving out on this date, but we are coming back to do the cleaning and will call them to schedule the final walkthrough.

On Nov. 9th in the morning, I get a nasty voicemail from one of the owners saying they went in our unit and it's not clean and they will have to charge us for that. So, they illegally went in to our unit without 24 hours notice I believe since we still had possession until Nov. 12th (end of our 30 day notice) and I told the office (that's where we are supposed to call) and told them it would be cleaned.

On Nov. 10th, I had a cleaning crew of 3 people from a professional business in our area work for 5 hours. One lady spent the entire time in the kitchen, while the other two were doing the rest of the condo.

It looked great! The only thing that I noticed was the master bedroom floor that needed to be cleaned and some spots removed, which I expected to be charged for since I couldn't get to it myself.

The final walk through was done by 2 of the 3 owners on Fri, Nov. 13th and I was present. We went room by room and the only things noted were: some nails in the walls in one of the bedrooms, little touch up of paint on one area, master bedroom carpet and a few of the stairs carpet and that was it.

I called on Mon. 16th to obtain a copy of the final walkthrough (which they said I could do), and was told that it was being revised to add additional items and I would get a copy soon. I called a free legal help center and they said that they can do this. I did get a copy and the only extras noted were cleaning of the windows and window sills and baseboards. It also said the stove, range, drip pans needed cleaning.

I picked up my security deposit today and this is what I got charged for, which I think is ridiculous-but this is my entire reason for writing on the board to seek some advice:

$275 for cleaning
$135 for carpet
$40 for stain removal (carpets)
$25 to clean the garage floor

Now, I am asking what is reasonable for a condo (1500 sq. ft.) that was professionally cleaned for 5 hours (and my place charges $20/hour...so $100) and was in great condition, but maybe needed some last minute touch ups?? I don't dispute the carpet, but I think the garage floor charge is weird and I just don't think the $275 for the cleaning is reasonable at all!!

Please advise!!

Thank you,
Angel

 

[wesawitbleed]

demand a receipt for the cleaning. you have 14 days to do so from the date you received the deposit. once they receive your demand they have 14 days to get back to you. do it verbally and by confirmed mail.

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs

 

[angel222]

I have a copy of the proposal and the line item for cleaning just says cleaning $275...should I be able to get a more detailed list??

 

[wesawitbleed]

do you have an actual receipt/invoice for the cleaning?

The landlord also must send you copies of receipts for the charges that the landlord incurred to repair or clean the rental unit and that the landlord deducted from your security deposit. The landlord must include the receipts with the itemized statement.195 The landlord must follow these rules:

* If the landlord or the landlord's employees did the work - The itemized statement must describe the work performed, including the time spent and the hourly rate charged. The hourly rate must be reasonable.
* If another person or business did the work - The landlord must provide you copies of the person's or business' invoice or receipt. The landlord must provide the person's or business' name, address and telephone number on the invoice or receipt, or in the itemized statement.
* If the landlord deducted for materials or supplies - The landlord must provide you a copy of the invoice or receipt. If the item used to repair or clean the unit is something that the landlord purchases regularly or in bulk, the landlord must reasonably document the item's cost (for example, by an invoice, a receipt or a vendor's price list)196
* If the landlord made a good faith estimate of charges - The landlord is allowed to make a good faith estimate of charges and include the estimate in the itemized statement in two situations: (1) the repair is being done by the landlord or an employee and cannot reasonably be completed within the 21 days, or (2) services or materials are being supplied by another person or business and the landlord does not have the invoice or receipt within the 21 days. In either situation, the landlord may deduct the estimated amount from your security deposit. In situation (2), the landlord must include the name, address and telephone number of the person or business that is supplying the services or materials.

Within 14 calendar days after completing the repairs or receiving the invoice or receipt, the landlord must mail or deliver to you a correct itemized statement, the invoices and receipts described above, and any refund to which you are entitled.197

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs

i'd also suggest you read civil code 1950.5 and go to the website i posted above and read it. Find California Code .you need to figure out what was cleaned and by whom and then demand a refund for anything you think is bogus. pretty much go to the dca website and it will explain your rights under the law.

 

[angel222]

Update....please help!

Hi!
So I called today and will follow up with a letter to them about getting the actual invoice and listing of what the professional company actually did and how much (what I have is just the estimate and that's what they went off of when they gave me the security deposit back).

They told me that the charge of $135 for carpet cleaning was for teh entire unit, not just the master bedroom. In the final walk through that I have, the carpets are marked as OK everywhere except the master bedroom, which I expected. Is it reasonable, or can they, charge me for cleaning the entire units carpets?? I was there for a year and a half.

They charged $25 to clean the garage floor (pressure washed it)...is this a charge they can deduct?? I've never heard of such a thing. My husband swept it out (dust and leaves) and it looked fine...like a garage floor.

$25 for patch/fill holes in wall...the only room that had some nails was one of my daughter's rooms where we hung up some things. I read on some website that they can't charge for this, but where do i have something legal that says that?? I'm trying to gather my evidence!

My house cleaner (that did the 5 hours before the final walk thru) said she would be happy to write a letter stating what they did and how much time that it would have taken to finish the job if they had the opportunity.

I'm so frustrated!
Angel

 

[Zigner]

You had a cleaning service in there for 15 person-hours and there were STILL areas that weren't even DUSTED? Furthermore, you had one person spend 5 HOURS in the kitchen exclusively, and then you agree that there was still problems with the stove/range being dirty? I'm just not buying it... (not to mention that $100 divided by 3 people for 5 hours works out to $6.67 per person BEFORE deducting for the profit - that's below minimum wage).

Your story needs a bit of polishing before you try to take this to court...

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Here's the scoop...I'm the tenant. I am under lease until May 2010. In Aug. 09, I gave notice to the landlords that we are under extreme financial difficulty (we are filing bankruptcy) and wanted to know what fees/penalties would be assessed to break our lease if we needed to move into something less expensive. They told me they understood and that it would be fine and to just keep them updated on the status of our rental search. Great....(of course this was verbal and I didn't get it in writing).

In September, they were notified that we found a place and they did a rental verification for us. During this time, they were posting on craigslist-which they said is their only advertising they do for these condos-and havent' gotten any "bites" yet for the unit to be re-rented. We couldn't move into that first unit they did a rental verification for.

In October, we found another-they did another rental verification. We gave our 30 days notice (Oct. 13th-Nov. 12th). The night that I gave notice, one of the owners called me to tell me that they would not let us out of our lease and we are required to stay there until they found new renters. Well, unfortunately, we couldn't afford it (which is entirely the reason we were moving-loved the place just couldn't afford it any longer).

On Nov. 7th, we moved out. I called the office approx. October 29th to tell them that we will be moving out on this date, but we are coming back to do the cleaning and will call them to schedule the final walkthrough.

On Nov. 9th in the morning, I get a nasty voicemail from one of the owners saying they went in our unit and it's not clean and they will have to charge us for that. So, they illegally went in to our unit without 24 hours notice I believe since we still had possession until Nov. 12th (end of our 30 day notice) and I told the office (that's where we are supposed to call) and told them it would be cleaned.

On Nov. 10th, I had a cleaning crew of 3 people from a professional business in our area work for 5 hours. One lady spent the entire time in the kitchen, while the other two were doing the rest of the condo.

It looked great! The only thing that I noticed was the master bedroom floor that needed to be cleaned and some spots removed, which I expected to be charged for since I couldn't get to it myself.

The final walk through was done by 2 of the 3 owners on Fri, Nov. 13th and I was present. We went room by room and the only things noted were: some nails in the walls in one of the bedrooms, little touch up of paint on one area, master bedroom carpet and a few of the stairs carpet and that was it.

I called on Mon. 16th to obtain a copy of the final walkthrough (which they said I could do), and was told that it was being revised to add additional items and I would get a copy soon. I called a free legal help center and they said that they can do this. I did get a copy and the only extras noted were cleaning of the windows and window sills and baseboards. It also said the stove, range, drip pans needed cleaning.

I picked up my security deposit today and this is what I got charged for, which I think is ridiculous-but this is my entire reason for writing on the board to seek some advice:

$275 for cleaning
$135 for carpet
$40 for stain removal (carpets)
$25 to clean the garage floor

Now, I am asking what is reasonable for a condo (1500 sq. ft.) that was professionally cleaned for 5 hours (and my place charges $20/hour...so $100) and was in great condition, but maybe needed some last minute touch ups?? I don't dispute the carpet, but I think the garage floor charge is weird and I just don't think the $275 for the cleaning is reasonable at all!!

Please advise!!

Thank you,
Angel

 

[angel222]

What??

I am responding to the last post....I don't agree that the kitchen needed any further work-it looked amazing...the owners are now saying that it needed more cleaning.

As far as the cleaning service that I had done, the owner of that company orders whomever she feels is needed. She charges $20/hr, we asked for 5 hours and she sent 3 people I was told. As far as what they get paid, I have no clue or how she makes her profits.

Seriously, the only thing I noticed that the house cleaners didn't do was wipe down the baseboards and the window sills....that's it. And, according to the final walk thru (before tehy went back and revised it) the owners didn't even mention those things! The place looked amazing (and they even said that on that day of the final walk thru), but now they are charging for full cleaning and power washing the garage floor..come on!

Angel

 

[Searchertwin]

In final walk through they marked it as "OK". OK, means it could have been better, it wasn't a perfect cleaning job. A year and a half is a lot of time on a carpet.

Did you use the garage? Was it part of the rental property? So, yes, they had to clean it, so yes, you had to pay. Be thankful, they didn't want to paint it or reseal it.

Patching and filling holes is damages. So, yes, you can be charged. You took the hammer and YOU HIT the nail into the wall CAUSING a hole. What you read on websites was things pertaining to "wear and tear"..this is not one of them.


You said your house cleaner would have taken some more time if they had the opportunity? You just admitted that the place needed more cleaning. Like Zinger stated, "Your story needs a bit of polishing before you try to take this to court...

And I have stated numerous of times on other posts, "What is clean to you is not clean to me." And I am the LL that has to re rent the place to someone that wants it perfect like you do.
So in your own words, "'COME ON".

 

[ecmst12]

Small nail holes are wear and tear. Big hammer dents, or big gouges, are not.

Do you have pictures proving the house was clean?

 

[angel222]

O.k...my response....

First I'd like to say that I don't admit the house wasn't clean. I called my house cleaners after I was aware that the LL wanted to have more cleaning done to ask her opinion of what she would think would be a fair amount of time to finish the job. She did say that if her team had another 2 or so hours, they would have been able to make it spotless. I didn't say it wasn't clean at all, but maybe it wasn't to the standards of the LL..it would have been move in ready in my eyes-but i get what your saying. But, to charge to re-clean the entire unit completly ($275) I think is wrong. I've read that it needs to be as it was in the walk through when you move in. Well, that's almost impossible...the place was brand spankin' new (we were the first occupants) and there is going to be normal wear and tear from living there for over a year.

The garage was apart of the rental unit (2 car) and it was swept up and there was no damage to the walls or anything like that. You can't expect a tenant to have it powerwashed upon move out, can you??

The nails/holes in the wall I believe are normal wear and tear...not above and beyond that. It was not damage. When we did the walk through the owners even said, "oh, there are a couple of nails in the walls, no big deal-that's normal, we'll just re-caulk that". I was actually really good about not putting holes in the walls and used those sticky double sided tape things to hang a lot of things up so it wouldn't cause any holes.

I don't have a camera (I know that's not an excuse for not taking pictures, it's just our situation right now) and I was doing everything all alone with 2 babies..it was all I had to get over to there to do the walk through!! My sister paid for the housecleaners as a gift to me since we are broke and thus, the reason for our move (we are in bankruptcy). The only witness I have to the house being clean is the owner of the housekeeping business that was hired...she went over after her crew did the work and checked everything out. She is willing to write a letter on my behalf stating that the place was move-out clean, except a few minor areas that they were not able to get to (like the window sills being dusty and a wipe down of the baseboards).

As far as the carpets, I don't agree that they should charge for cleaning for the entire unit...I do agree with the master bedroom and the stain removal in the master bedroom, as noted on the final walk thru and discussed with teh LL. But, to charge me for cleaning on the whole unit is unfair (in my opinion of course).

Also, searchertwin-when they wrote OK, that's what they wrote on the move-in as well for everything...so those items are in the same condition as they were at move in and thus why i don't believe we should be charged for carpet cleaning for the entire unit when the only item that was marked as such was for the master bedroom. And, the garage floor is also marked OK, just as it was on move-in...so they shouldn't be charging me for that either.

I'm not trying to screw my old LL here, I'm just trying to figure out what is fair and I don't think what I was charged is fair. They charged a total of $500 to my security deposit.

We are great tenants and take care of our units.

Angel

 

[Cvillecpm]

Fair is not the issue....you BROKE YOUR LEASE and they can take possession and MITIGATE your and THEIR damages since you will be uncollectible if/when they get a judgement if you declare BK.

Sue them and expect a counter suit....

Hotel California - you can check-out any time you want BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE!!!

 

[angel222]

Resolved!

I just wanted to post the resolution to my ongoing issue with my LL on the security deposit.

I sent a certified letter explaining to them in detail, item by item, what I didn't think was appropriate that they charged me for.

They sent a revised security deposit accounting and reduced the cleaning costs from $450 to $80 and removed the charges for the garage floor cleaning ($25) and patch/filling holes in walls ($25). So I received $380 back from them which made my total security deposit charges $120...very reasonable.

I think they were angry that we had broken the lease and were just trying to charge us the extra amounts to get back some of their loss. They still have the right to sue us for our broken lease, which they haven't done yet. I'm glad that I took the time to send them the letter of dispute against our deposit and they realized what they charged was not proper.

Yay me