Jason Rother

[cyberspook]

What is the name of your state? NY

Ok I never thought I would use this forum for this purpose but here it goes.

Back in 1987 Lcpl. Jason Rother was left behind during a exercise in the mojave dessert at 29 palms in CA. They found his remains a month later.

His leaders Sgt. Thomas Turnell, Sgt. Christoper Clyde and 1st Lt. Allen V Lawson where all convicted at court martial.

I have been climbing all over the web searching for what happened to these guys (sentencing etc.) for a report I have to write on the subject of the consequences of dereliction of duty. I was a young Marine back then when it happened and this incident will make a perfect example for this paper.

Anyway, if any of you law gurus happen to remember this (you would have to be in your late 30's or early 40's to remember) or know of a better research tool (other than google) and have the time to contribute, I would be much appreciative.

Thanks bunches and Happy New Year.

PS
SHORTYLONG if I made any spelling errors, let me know via PM

 

[justnotshowingu]

Do you know what unit they belonged to?

 

[SHORTY LONG]

What is the name of your state? NY

Ok I never thought I would use this forum for this purpose but here it goes.

Back in 1987 Lcpl. Jason Rother was left behind during a exercise in the Mohave dessert at 29 palms in CA. They found his remains a month later.

His leaders Sgt. Thomas Turnell, Sgt. Christoper Clyde and 1st Lt. Allen V Lawson where all convicted at court martial.

I have been climbing all over the web searching for what happened to these guys (sentencing etc.) for a report I have to write on the subject of the consequences of dereliction of duty. I was a young Marine back then when it happened and this incident will make a perfect example for this paper.

Anyway, if any of you law gurus happen to remember this (you would have to be in your late 30's or early 40's to remember) or know of a better research tool (other than google) and have the time to contribute, I would be much appreciative.

Thanks bunches and Happy New Year.

PS
SHORTYLONG if I made any spelling errors, let me know via PM

Cyberspook, here are some site that will help with the information you are seeking:

Allen V Lawson
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE4DC1539F930A25752C0A96F948260
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD123AF932A25752C0A96F948260


Thomas Turnell
THOMAS TURNELL 1963-03-01 Lewiston ME 04240
THOMAS TURNELL 1963-03-01 Lewiston ME 04240
THOMAS TURNELL 1956-07-03 Santa Clara CA 95050
THOMAS TURNELL 1956-07-03 Eugene OR 97405
THOMAS A TURNELL 1956-07-03 Portland OR 97225
THOMAS R TURNELL 1948-07-09 Humble TX 77346


Jason Rother
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=rother&GSfn=jason&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=3495889&
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,956525,00.html
http://govexec.com/dailyfed/0303/032803nj2.htm

On Thomas Turnell, it would help to have a middle name or initial; and someone
like Col. Badapple or Fozzy hopefully can further help you out with the Court Martial
Convictions, and thier outcome!

P.S. The only spelling corrected was Mohave which I corrected. Chow Time!

If all else fails, then you could always do a FOIA request, which could take up to year!

 

[cyberspook]

ty

Thanks Shorty. The find a grave link was nice. I added some virtual flowers and a message.

The other stuff I already saw. I don't want to wait a year for a FOIA request. Hopefully Badapple or Fozzy can throw there two cents in too.

Thanks for the spelling correction. I think I misspelled desert too. Ha Ha. Hopefully I won't on the paper I am submiting.

 

[cyberspook]

Do you know what unit they belonged to?

No, I don't know what unit they where attached to. I am pretty sure it was the 2nd Marine Division though.

I was hoping one of you older guys (badapple, fozzy etc.) would have remembered this. This kid died because of complacancy, incompetance and down right layzieness.

There is almost nothing on this kids death on the internet. There are Wikipedia pages all over the place on everything from obscure porn stars to how to download movies through mininova but nothing on Lcpl Jason Jay Rother.

There are two entries on his virtual memorial and one of them is mine, and it has been almost twenty years since he died!

I know I am venting right now, and am sorry for it. Just looking for someone to put a little more research into this question than the average run of the day AWOL/UA question.

 

[fozzy2]

The Rother case was a major deal indeed, the Corp's equivalent of Meirecke (a navy aircrew candidate drowned by instructors). Initially the chain-of-command investigated itself and basically absolved everyone except a few lower enlisteds. The family complained directly to Al Gray, the commandant, who ordered a complete oustide investigation and was furious at what he found out (he would mention the incident for years in speeches).
I know that the USMC final report was over 450 page but I can't find it online, and indeed can't find any reference/catalog numbers for it. As someone mentioned, you should be able to make a FOIA request with the Corps, it might not take too long to get it.
One of the things that enraged Gray was that the command had put that particular Lt. in charge of that unit -- despite such problems as at least 4 DWI convictions (and apparently related on-duty alcohol incidents) and had tried unsuccessfully to resign his commission. Apparently, the COC considered his assignment as a punishment (and did not consider the potential effects on those he was in charge of).

I pulled this list of punishments from a NYT article:
"
The three Marines at the bottom of the chain of command were court-martialed and found guilty of negligence, although not of acting maliciously. Four higher officers were reprimanded and removed from their commands.

The most serious punishment was given to First Lt. Allen Lawson, 25, of Flint, Mich., the only commissioned officer charged in the case. Lawson, who was responsible for stationing Rother and other Marines as road guides in the desert the night Rother was lost, was sentenced to four months in the brig and then will be dismissed from the Corps.

Rother's squad leader, Sgt. Thomas Turnell, 25, of Elrama, Pa., was found guilty of negligence for failing to account for Rother's whereabouts and welfare. He was demoted to lance corporal.

Turnell's superior, Sgt. Christopher Clyde, 28, of Mentor, Ohio, was found guilty of negligence for failing to account for his men, failing to report the status of his platoon to his superiors and allowing Turnell special time off. Clyde also was demoted to lance corporal.

Continuing up the chain of command, Rother's platoon commander, Second Lt. Christopher Johnson, and his company commander, Lt. Michael Henderson, were removed from their positions and reprimanded because of the breakdown in personnel accountability.

And, finally, the two officers in charge of the battalion, who bore ultimate responsibility for the operation, were disciplined. Lt. Col. Edward Robeson, who had taken over as battalion commander two months before Rother was lost, and Major Tony Holm, his executive officer, both were relieved of their commands and reassigned within the division.
"

 

[Andy104]

Have you checked the Army side?

I wonder if they would have referred to the marine case when a Army soldier died due to the instructors error during WLDC in Fort Hood last year?
Might be worth checking.
Also is it possible to do a freedom of information release?

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Cyberspook, also, have you considered in contacting the following, and see
if you can obtain what you seek:

Headquarters, USMC
http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/

Camp Pendleton
http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/base/legalassistance/index.asp

Twenty-nine Palms
http://www.29palms.usmc.mil/

 

[cyberspook]

Thanks Fozzy, Andy, and Shorty. I think I am going to do a FOIA request too. Hell I might even post it online after I get it.

So the Lt. got 4 months in the brig. The platoon SGT and squad leader got demoted to LCPL wich means they probably finished out there terms and left the Marine Corps honorably. Doesn't seem like much for leaving a kid to bake to death in the desert without even noticing he was gone untill 40 hours later.

We seem to write a lot about AWOL/UA cases these days on this forum. The irony here is that it was the Marine Corps that went UA on Jason Rother.

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Cyberspook, if you go the FOIA route, be advised that, they the USMC does not
have to disclose the record from their exemption under the FOIA, and or could
release certain parts of the records with some of them being blacked-out/redacted.
However, I encourage you to go forth with your endeavors, and will help all I can.

Herein is the link to FOIA the Corps: http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/FOIA/index.htm


As we go forth this New Year, may we all stand firm and see the salvation of the
Almighty One who is in mystery and shroud; for the day of atonement, and
reckoning are all upon us!

 

[dunk_mn]

i am surprised ppl are still talking about Jason, i would like to thank you for posting this. You see Jason was my Half brother and i was 7 at the time this happened. My family will not talk about this. I decided to look it up myself. I do remember hearing my mom talk about it. but again thank you. if anyone could give me anymore info that would be great!

 

[cyberspook]

i am surprised ppl are still talking about Jason, i would like to thank you for posting this. You see Jason was my Half brother and i was 7 at the time this happened. My family will not talk about this. I decided to look it up myself. I do remember hearing my mom talk about it. but again thank you. if anyone could give me anymore info that would be great!

There is not much on the web about Jason Rother. I was a Marine stationed at Camp Lejeune NC when Jason was killed. I remember the articles in the local paper but at the time I wasn't very much interested in these types of things (low intelect etc.). I was a non-rate Marine at the time and was more about getting drunk and what not.

I am sorry your family won't talk about this. Some feelings never die. I do hope that there is a lesson for Marines and the Marine Corps that have been learned in Jason Rother's death. I do hope that perhaps in his death that other Marine's lives have been saved as a result.

God bless to you and your family

 

[dunk_mn]

cyberspook...
thanks for your reply and care about what happened.

 

[hapatang]

investigation

While I can't add anything to the final dispositions of those charged in LCpl Rother's death, I do have a copy of the investigating officer's (Col Angel) 53 page report of the incident (to include Gen Gray's endorsement). All the names are there (none "blacked out") - the only omissions are the SSN's. It doesn't have all the witness statements, just the report submitted by Col Angel. If anyone would like to see it, please let me know. This report is still used today by many Marine Corps units to prevent this from happening agian. Be warned though, if you do read it, it'll bring out emotions - good and bad - when you see what went wrong, who was to blame, and the efforts put in to find him by Marine and civilains.

 

[cyberspook]

While I can't add anything to the final dispositions of those charged in LCpl Rother's death, I do have a copy of the investigating officer's (Col Angel) 53 page report of the incident (to include Gen Gray's endorsement). All the names are there (none "blacked out") - the only omissions are the SSN's. It doesn't have all the witness statements, just the report submitted by Col Angel. If anyone would like to see it, please let me know. This report is still used today by many Marine Corps units to prevent this from happening agian. Be warned though, if you do read it, it'll bring out emotions - good and bad - when you see what went wrong, who was to blame, and the efforts put in to find him by Marine and civilains.

I would like to get a copy of this from you. Can you please PM me?