Job applications...

[scia2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I have a 17 year old son who was arrested and charged as a juvenile several times between the ages of 13-15 years, had some visits to juvy. He's stayed out of trouble since then, everything is paid off, he's not on any type of probation anymore.

It is my understanding that once he turns 18 and makes moves to seal his juvenile record then he can say no, I've never been arrested and no, I've never had criminal charges. And that can be considered accurate and truthful.

What about when he's 17?

He had been working with his uncle, but because of the R-word things have dried up, his uncle hasn't had a whole lot of work for him. My son wants another job and the first application that he's brought home asks about arrests and charges, he asked me dad, what do I say? Where does my son stand on this at the moment? Does he have to reveal these juvenile incidents? He's a good kid now, he's pulled his act together and just wants to get on with things. In my mind he's been held accountable for his actions in the past and he's moved on, I wouldn't like to see him held back for the things that he has done in the past while he's trying to do something positive for himself...(but then...I am his dad)What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[CdwJava]

It is my understanding that once he turns 18 and makes moves to seal his juvenile record then he can say no, I've never been arrested and no, I've never had criminal charges. And that can be considered accurate and truthful.

Most private employers can NOT ask about arrests, only convictions (or, "true findings" as they are called in juvenile court).

And his record is not SEALED until a judge orders it so. All because he "moves to seal his juvenile record" does not mean it is.

What about when he's 17?

He has to be 18 to petition the court to have his juvenile record sealed.

My son wants another job and the first application that he's brought home asks about arrests and charges, he asked me dad, what do I say?

First, the employer cannot ask about arrests, only convictions ... unless he is applying for certain government jobs or those requiring security clearances, and I doubt either is the case.

Second, he has to answer truthfully or risk being terminated when/if they find out about the conviction. Being blackballed as a liar would be worse than not getting the job, I would think.

Where does my son stand on this at the moment? Does he have to reveal these juvenile incidents? He's a good kid now, he's pulled his act together and just wants to get on with things. In my mind he's been held accountable for his actions in the past and he's moved on, I wouldn't like to see him held back for the things that he has done in the past while he's trying to do something positive for himself...(but then...I am his dad)

Until a judge orders his record sealed, he is stuck.

From the California Courts:

Juvenile Records

Your Juvenile records do appear on your criminal record. Upon your 18th birthday, you are eligible to petition to have your juvenile records sealed. Once sealed, no one can gain access to them and they will be completely destroyed five years from the date of sealing.

Juvenile records are not automatically sealed upon your 18th birthday. You must affirmatively petition the juvenile court to have them sealed. You can do this by filing out a form and filing it with the juvenile court in the county in which you were convicted. Contact the juvenile court in the county you were convicted, and ask them to send you a copy of the form used in that county. Check to see if they have any special filing requirements such as additional photocopies or the need to serve copies of the petition on any government agencies, and get the correct information for filing by mail. Usually, there is no fee.

If you graduated from the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, Division of Juvenile Justice, your juvenile conviction(s) will have been dismissed as part of your graduation. If you do not petition to have your juvenile records sealed and destroyed, they will remain on your record until your 38th birthday, then they will be destroyed.​

 

[scia2]

Thank you for your reply.

And his record is not SEALED until a judge orders it so. All because he "moves to seal his juvenile record" does not mean it is.

Oh yes, we realize that. I didn't word that very well.

First, the employer cannot ask about arrests, only convictions ... unless he is applying for certain government jobs or those requiring security clearances, and I doubt either is the case.

Ok, I haven't actually looked at this application. I would assume then that the questioning is about convictions, my son's wording was arrests and charges. I would hope they're not asking about arrests then, I'll look at that. As you pointed out, they're called 'true findings' in the Juvenile system - does that mean my son can say he hasn't been 'convicted' of anything. Or is that just semantics? (and I notice that the information you posted from California Courts speaks of 'convictions' so I think I'm just being wishful)

Second, he has to answer truthfully or risk being terminated when/if they find out about the conviction. Being blackballed as a liar would be worse than not getting the job, I would think.

Yes, he needs to answer the questions correctly. I don't want him to straight out lie. I do want him to know what his responsibilities are in responding to these questions. It's just knowing that there are many people out there looking for jobs at the moment and...I'm sure there would be questions raised. Despite an employer not being able to look into this themselves, correct...

It seems a little....tough that when he's 19 he'll be able to say 'no convictions' but when he's 17 the progress he's made doesn't count for a lot...(unless he were to find an understanding employer that will listen to an explanation of that). He was with his uncle for over a year, he was a good employee with him so hopefully that matters more.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you for your reply.



Oh yes, we realize that. I didn't word that very well.



Ok, I haven't actually looked at this application. I would assume then that the questioning is about convictions, my son's wording was arrests and charges. I would hope they're not asking about arrests then, I'll look at that. As you pointed out, they're called 'true findings' in the Juvenile system - does that mean my son can say he hasn't been 'convicted' of anything. Or is that just semantics? (and I notice that the information you posted from California Courts speaks of 'convictions' so I think I'm just being wishful)



Yes, he needs to answer the questions correctly. I don't want him to straight out lie. I do want him to know what his responsibilities are in responding to these questions. It's just knowing that there are many people out there looking for jobs at the moment and...I'm sure there would be questions raised. Despite an employer not being able to look into this themselves, correct...

It seems a little....tough that when he's 19 he'll be able to say 'no convictions' but when he's 17 the progress he's made doesn't count for a lot...(unless he were to find an understanding employer that will listen to an explanation of that). He was with his uncle for over a year, he was a good employee with him so hopefully that matters more.

True findings ARE convictions. Don't play the word game or allow your son to do so. He must answer yes when asked about convictions. here is the thing -- these are CONSEQUENCES of HIS actions and bad choices. You may think it sucks that he has cleaned up his act and is still bearing the brunt of his choices however that is life. He made bad choices and he has to live with the outcome -- one of which is saying yes that he has been convicted and hence may not get a job or several than he wants.

 

[cbg]

Let me also point out that what an employer can and cannot ask about at hire (or after hire, for that matter) is state specific.

 

[CdwJava]

He will be given that second chance at age 18 when he can petition the court to seal his record. Generally, unless he has a lengthy record of continued offenses, and the original offense was not too serious, a court will agree to seal the record thus enabling him to answer "no" to questions when asked about convictions (with some few exceptions, such as for law enforcement jobs).

 

[scia2]

Now that I've seen the application, the wording on it is about convictions, rather than arrests and charges.

Don't play the word game or allow your son to do so.

I don't want to play any word games. I just want to give my son accurate advice. We've done a lot of work on truth and honesty, I don't think it would be a good look for me to say "here's the way around it, son"...

here is the thing -- these are CONSEQUENCES of HIS actions and bad choices. You may think it sucks that he has cleaned up his act and is still bearing the brunt of his choices however that is life. He made bad choices and he has to live with the outcome

Yes, that is perfectly true. And my son does understand that, that's what he said to me when we talked about this, "you're going to say something about consequences now aren't you" (satisfying when you find out they listen...). And he does think it sucks (and yes, so do I, to some degree). I think that mostly he's just nervous about having to front up about things to a stranger. He's still going to apply, which I think is the right attitude.

Maybe it's just one more piece of motivation to stay on the straight and narrow...

 

[scia2]

He will be given that second chance at age 18 when he can petition the court to seal his record. Generally, unless he has a lengthy record of continued offenses, and the original offense was not too serious, a court will agree to seal the record thus enabling him to answer "no" to questions when asked about convictions (with some few exceptions, such as for law enforcement jobs).

Yes, the indications we got from his PO towards the end of his probation were that there would be few obstacles to sealing it. Merely his opinion we realize, but I've seen nothing in what I've read to indicate that there would be reasons not to.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Ohiogal]

Now that I've seen the application, the wording on it is about convictions, rather than arrests and charges.



I don't want to play any word games. I just want to give my son accurate advice. We've done a lot of work on truth and honesty, I don't think it would be a good look for me to say "here's the way around it, son"...



Yes, that is perfectly true. And my son does understand that, that's what he said to me when we talked about this, "you're going to say something about consequences now aren't you" (satisfying when you find out they listen...). And he does think it sucks (and yes, so do I, to some degree). I think that mostly he's just nervous about having to front up about things to a stranger. He's still going to apply, which I think is the right attitude.

Maybe it's just one more piece of motivation to stay on the straight and narrow...

Sounds like you are a step-up parent and have taught your child pretty well. It is satisfying to know that he has listened. Yes it sucks that a child's mistake has consequences but better the consequences be at the child's level than no consequences until adulthood when they are more serious and life damaging. It is painful now but hopefully this pain which can be sealed at adulthood will be the last and he won't experience the adult pain of prison.

I agree that he should still apply.

 

[scia2]

Sounds like you are a step-up parent and have taught your child pretty well.

Thank you very much. (It hasn't always felt that way!)

To look at the big picture it is better for him to go through all this (as he insisted he must...) as a teenager. It seems he will be granted a second chance, and in reality his 18th birthday is a lot closer than we're imagining it to be!

It is painful now but hopefully this pain which can be sealed at adulthood will be the last and he won't experience the adult pain of prison.

I certainly hope so. And I do feel that we're going to be ok from now on.

Thanks again.