Joint checking with parent...applying for long term medicaid

[allen123]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?Florida, I have a joint checking with a parent who is in rehab but applying for state medicaid for possible long term care. My sibling got POA before I did and now is threatening me with legal action if I use any money in the checking to help our parent. Checking balance was used for a return flight home and to replace income while taking care of parent while in hospital. Now I want to go back to help parent get to doctors and see if anything else can be done for their health. Am I allowed to use money in joint checking to get to my parent (I'm out of state and would be driving a rental car and staying in hotel) and to replace income because I have no fianancial resources myself and will still have bills to be paid while doing this or would Medicaid say this is not allowed and considered a "gift"?

 

[Zigner]

Where did the money in the account come from?

 

[allen123]

Where did the money in the account come from?

Money is parents.

 

[Zigner]

Money is parents.

Why would you think it's ok to use their money on yourself?

With that said: Once the money goes in a joint account, you both are actually equally entitled to withdraw it, but sis can cause problems. Honestly, if I were the sister, I'd use the POA to move the money to a new account that you don't have access to.

 

[LdiJ]

Why would you think it's ok to use their money on yourself?

With that said: Once the money goes in a joint account, you both are actually equally entitled to withdraw it, but sis can cause problems. Honestly, if I were the sister, I'd use the POA to move the money to a new account that you don't have access to.

I agree that sis could cause problems, however its not unreasonable for an adult child who is arranging and helping with care for a parent to get reimbursed for valid out of pocket expenses. The true question would be if the expenses were truly valid. For example, if the sibling with POA was doing what was necessary to take care of the parent's needs, then there would be no need for the other sibling to incur expenses to do so.

However, if the sibling with the POA was NOT doing their duty by the parent, then I, as the joint account holder, would be moving the money so that the sibling with the POA could not do so.

In other words, either the sibling with POA or the sibling who is a joint account holder could move the money so that the other couldn't access it, but neither should do it unless they could prove that they were the ones acting in the best interest of the parent.

 

[Zigner]

I agree that sis could cause problems, however its not unreasonable for an adult child who is arranging and helping with care for a parent to get reimbursed for valid out of pocket expenses. The true question would be if the expenses were truly valid. For example, if the sibling with POA was doing what was necessary to take care of the parent's needs, then there would be no need for the other sibling to incur expenses to do so.

However, if the sibling with the POA was NOT doing their duty by the parent, then I, as the joint account holder, would be moving the money so that the sibling with the POA could not do so.

In other words, either the sibling with POA or the sibling who is a joint account holder could move the money so that the other couldn't access it, but neither should do it unless they could prove that they were the ones acting in the best interest of the parent.

This OP wants to use the money in the account to pay for the travel costs to visit and also to pay her bills while s/he's visiting.

 

[LdiJ]

This OP wants to use the money in the account to pay for the travel costs to visit and also to pay her bills while s/he's visiting.

In some circumstances Zig that could honestly be valid. If someone's parent honestly needs them and that someone is living paycheck to paycheck with no savings, it could honestly be valid and even Medicaid wouldn't squawk if it was.

 

[commentator]

I had almost the same situation come up, with a sibling on the joint checking account using my mother's money to pave his driveway and pay the cable, then the following month she was in skilled care, ready for Medicaid after her Medicare stopped paying, with no assets left in her account. ( He really thought it would work better if he had spent all the money!)

What he ended up doing was desperately, with the assistance of the local department of human services representative trying to come up with justifiable expenses for our mother that he had incurred during the last few months that justified the spending of this money. This even included mileage to drive to the place she was to see her, and gifts and treats he'd brought her when he visited.

And even with all these included, he wasn't going to be able to come up with enough justification and was about to be penalized (as in, we're not going to pay for Medicaid for this person until you (she) has come up with xxx number of months of money to pay for her care, because you obviously were attempting to divest and spend down her money before she entered the long term care facility.)

She passed away before it came to it, but my brother should've listened to what I was telling him in the first place.

This caseworker has seen lots of need and has also seen lots of snakey tricks pulled by relatives of their prospective clients. They may determine that it was appropriate to charge the account for gas money to get you to her bedside, maybe even for you to rent a car to drive there, but I sort of doubt they'd fly you there and put you up in an expensive hotel and consider that a good use of her assets. They've got very strict guidelines to go by, it has all come up before, but it is a bit subjective too.So it all depends, might be acceptable, might not.

If I were a caseworker, I'd have a heck of a problem with someone who not only flew there and paid for their stay and expenses but used mother's money to "replace income while I was visiting" That's hogwash and we all know it.

If I were this OP, at this point, I'd be VERY careful what else I spent of mother's money. Understand that the sister is concerned because she may understand more of how this is going to work, may already have talked to the Medicaid people, and what you do with your mother's assets at this point is VERY important.

 

[LdiJ]

I had almost the same situation come up, with a sibling on the joint checking account using my mother's money to pave his driveway and pay the cable, then the following month she was in skilled care, ready for Medicaid after her Medicare stopped paying, with no assets left in her account. ( He really thought it would work better if he had spent all the money!)

What he ended up doing was desperately, with the assistance of the local department of human services representative trying to come up with justifiable expenses for our mother that he had incurred during the last few months that justified the spending of this money. This even included mileage to drive to the place she was to see her, and gifts and treats he'd brought her when he visited.

And even with all these included, he wasn't going to be able to come up with enough justification and was about to be penalized (as in, we're not going to pay for Medicaid for this person until you (she) has come up with xxx number of months of money to pay for her care, because you obviously were attempting to divest and spend down her money before she entered the long term care facility.)

She passed away before it came to it, but my brother should've listened to what I was telling him in the first place.

This caseworker has seen lots of need and has also seen lots of snakey tricks pulled by relatives of their prospective clients. They may determine that it was appropriate to charge the account for gas money to get you to her bedside, maybe even for you to rent a car to drive there, but I sort of doubt they'd fly you there and put you up in an expensive hotel and consider that a good use of her assets. They've got very strict guidelines to go by, it has all come up before, but it is a bit subjective too.So it all depends, might be acceptable, might not.

If I were a caseworker, I'd have a heck of a problem with someone who not only flew there and paid for their stay and expenses but used mother's money to "replace income while I was visiting" That's hogwash and we all know it.

If I were this OP, at this point, I'd be VERY careful what else I spent of mother's money. Understand that the sister is concerned because she may understand more of how this is going to work, may already have talked to the Medicaid people, and what you do with your mother's assets at this point is VERY important.

Some spend downs however are acceptable and attorneys/caseworkers helping with Medicaid applications will actually advise someone to do necessary spend downs. The best example I can think of was when a coworker's father had to go into a nursing home (and his mother did not) the caseworker advised my friend to do a spend down by replacing anything in the home his mother would continue to live in that was due or shortly would be due for replacement. The roof was needing replacement and so was the furnace...and some appliances were close to being on their last leg, so they did a spend down to replace those items. Then, after his father died about a year later, and his mother needed to go into a nursing home, he did another spend down to replace the carpet and get the home ready for tenants. The income from the rental went towards the nursing home costs.

 

[Zigner]

In some circumstances Zig that could honestly be valid. If someone's parent honestly needs them and that someone is living paycheck to paycheck with no savings, it could honestly be valid and even Medicaid wouldn't squawk if it was.

I don't disagree with you - but I'd bet dollars to donuts that this is not what's happening here.