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Judge(Bench) vs Jury trial? I'm Landlord suing home town Hero. Federal court.

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Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
So let me get this straight, if either side wants a jury trial, then it comes a jury trail?
Yes. If either side wants a jury then the trial will be by jury. Understand that in the federal system in suits at common law (which would include a contract case) where the amount in controversy is $20 or more the right to a jury trial is guaranteed by the Seventh Amendment to the Constitution. So whether you like it or not, if the defendant wants a jury trial in an ordinary civil suit in federal court the trial will be by jury. The only way to change that rule is to change the Consitution itself, which as you likely know is extremely difficult to do. This constitutional right to a jury trial is also reflected in FRCP 38 and 39.

A change of venue can only be made to another district in which the case could have been brought. 28 U.S.C. § 1404(a). What this means is that generally change of venue is something that defendants seek because the plaintiff had the option to bring the action in any district where the case could be brought and presumeably would have chosen the one he or she thought was best. Here, I assume that if you could have brought the suit in some other district you would have as you knew this issue from the start. That suggests to me that the district in which you brought the lawsuit was the only one where it could be brought. If that's true, then you won't get a change of venue.

The fact that a party to a case is famous does not preclude a trial being held in a court located where the person is well known. It happens with some regularity. And it is possible to get a jury that can decide the case reasonably objectively. You mention the OJ case as one example of the bias you fear, but that case actually proves that they can decide things objectively. The criminal case required the state to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem is that the prosecution made a number of mistakes in that case which opened the door for reasonable doubt, of which OJ's lawyers took full advantage. The result in that case was not a jury blinded by the fame of OJ but rather a prosecution team that did not match up well with the stellar attorneys OJ had. But in the civil case against OJ, OJ lost. The standard of proof required was much less, preponderance of the evidence (the same standard that will apply in your case) and the plaintiffs learned from the prosecutor's mistakes and did not repeat them. That second jury was no less aware of the fame of OJ than the first. Yet it was able to render a verdict against him nevertheless.

The more common reason that celebrities and wealthy people seem to do better than others in court is not that the juries are biased in their favor as a result of the fame (though in some cases that might happen) but rather that the rich and famous can pay for outstanding legal representation. If the company you are suing has an attorney and you don't, that defendant will have a significant advantage that has nothing to do with the fame of the person involved with that company.
 


RJR

Active Member
Timber, you seem to be hung up on a bench or jury trial. I asked before and you did not answer, has the DF responded to the Suit in ANY way, yes or no!
 

quincy

Senior Member
... What this means is that generally change of venue is something that defendants seek because the plaintiff had the option to bring the action in any district where the case could be brought and presumeably would have chosen the one he or she thought was best. Here, I assume that if you could have brought the suit in some other district you would have as you knew this issue from the start. That suggests to me that the district in which you brought the lawsuit was the only one where it could be brought. If that's true, then you won't get a change of venue. ...
Although I agree it generally will be a defendant who moves for a change of venue, it is possible for a plaintiff to have a case transferred to another district if the plaintiff can demonstrate a change of circumstances.

Of course, the change of venue must be to a district where Timberlandslippers could have originally filed suit but for some reason didn't.

I know of a defamation case originally filed in a US District Court in Hawaii where a change of venue motion by the plaintiff successfully resulted in a transfer of the case to Nevada, based on an analysis of 28 US 1404(a) factors.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Of course, the change of venue must be to a district where Timberlandslippers could have originally filed suit but for some reason didn't.

Right, and if the OP wanted a different district from the start then filing in that other district would have been better than seeking the venue change, as the change in venue is not guaranteed.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Right, and if the OP wanted a different district from the start then filing in that other district would have been better than seeking the venue change, as the change in venue is not guaranteed.
Agreed.

I am becoming more and more convinced with each posting that Timberlandslippers needs to hire an attorney to help him.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Agreed.

I am becoming more and more convinced with each posting that Timberlandslippers needs to hire an attorney to help him.
Well, I have been suggesting that from the start. :D I've litigated against pro se parties in federal courts and they do not generally fare well. It has nothing to do with how smart they are but rather simply lack of knowledge of the applicable rules and experience. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that litigation is somehow easy and that anyone who is smart can do it. Perhaps TV and movies make it seem that way. It takes more than just having a logical argument (though that is certainly important). You have to know and follow the rules too.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Well, I have been suggesting that from the start. :D I've litigated against pro se parties in federal courts and they do not generally fare well. It has nothing to do with how smart they are but rather simply lack of knowledge of the applicable rules and experience. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that litigation is somehow easy and that anyone who is smart can do it. Perhaps TV and movies make it seem that way. It takes more than just having a logical argument (though that is certainly important). You have to know and follow the rules too.
The procedural rules certainly can trip up a lot of pro se parties.

But I think the decision to go without an attorney probably has less to do with anyone thinking a legal action will be easy and more to do with the high cost of legal representation.

Most people do not have multi-thousands of dollars to spend on an attorney so they are often financially-forced to go it alone.

If someone has a case worth pursuing, though, an attorney is generally worth the investment.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
The procedural rules certainly can trip up a lot of pro se parties.

But I think the decision to go without an attorney probably has less to do with anyone thinking a legal action will be easy and more to do with the high cost of legal representation.
That's true for some certainly. But I have seen my share of people who could hire a lawyer but don't simply because they think it's not all that hard based on their perceptions of what litigation is about.

I suspect most commercial landlords who are seeking over $75,000 in damages would have the means to pay a lawyer, especially if their contracts provide (as they probably should) that the loser any litigation between them pays the winner's legal bills.

Indeed, and I didn't address this before, but if the OP operated the leasing business through a corporation, LLC, LLP, or other separate business entity then that business entity is likely the proper plaintiff in the lawsuit as the contract would almost certainly be between the OP's business entity and the defendant business entity that entered into the lease. That would have several implications. First would be that the diversity analysis would focus on whether the business entity is considered to be a citizen of a different state. And second, corporations, LLCs, etc must be represented by a lawyer. The OP, if not a lawyer, could not represent the business entity in federal court.
 

quincy

Senior Member
That's true for some certainly. But I have seen my share of people who could hire a lawyer but don't simply because they think it's not all that hard based on their perceptions of what litigation is about.

I suspect most commercial landlords who are seeking over $75,000 in damages would have the means to pay a lawyer, especially if their contracts provide (as they probably should) that the loser any litigation between them pays the winner's legal bills.

Indeed, and I didn't address this before, but if the OP operated the leasing business through a corporation, LLC, LLP, or other separate business entity then that business entity is likely the proper plaintiff in the lawsuit as the contract would almost certainly be between the OP's business entity and the defendant business entity that entered into the lease. That would have several implications. First would be that the diversity analysis would focus on whether the business entity is considered to be a citizen of a different state. And second, corporations, LLCs, etc must be represented by a lawyer. The OP, if not a lawyer, could not represent the business entity in federal court.
That is certainly something Timberlandslippers needs to consider - among a whole host of other things he should be considering. :)
 

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