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Judgement without proof or evidence

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Bria

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah.

My dad is a private lender and was given gold coins as his commission for a loan her did. He needed money more than the gold so he took the coins to a gold place and changed it for cash. About a year later, he gets called to court, with the plaintiff saying that the gold was stolen while he was in the hospital. His granddaughter claims that he told her where to find the gold and invest it, which she did. She paid her boyfriend with some of the coins, who then paid with coins to the guy my dad the loan for, so there were at least three other people who handled the gold before my dad. My dad couldn't afford a lawyer at the time, and quite frankly thought it was ridiculous that he would even be sued in the first place, so he assumed the judge would just dismiss the case. The plaintiffs lawyer talked to the judge, and the judge wouldn't even listen to my dad, and then ruled in favor of the plaintiff claiming that my dad knowingly changed the stolen gold for cash, so he determined my dad would have to pay for the total gold at the highest price per oz. plus interest. My dad never received anything from the judge or lawyer after that so he assumed they dropped the case after all. A year after that, the lawyer contacts my dad demanding he give a list of all assets and pay up, and now the price has doubled, and they are also going after my grandpa for $125,000.00, who never even had any gold coins. He says if my dad doesn't pay they will take away his inheritance. There is no proof that my dad ever even handled stolen gold coins, or that the coins were stolen to begin with. There is no evidence that he had anything to do with it, or knew they were stolen. My mom is worried my grandpa will have a heart attack from all the stress and my dad is sick because of it. Is this even legal? Can anyone just point a finger and get away with whatever they want?
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah.

My dad is a private lender and was given gold coins as his commission for a loan her did. He needed money more than the gold so he took the coins to a gold place and changed it for cash. About a year later, he gets called to court, with the plaintiff saying that the gold was stolen while he was in the hospital. His granddaughter claims that he told her where to find the gold and invest it, which she did. She paid her boyfriend with some of the coins, who then paid with coins to the guy my dad the loan for, so there were at least three other people who handled the gold before my dad. My dad couldn't afford a lawyer at the time, and quite frankly thought it was ridiculous that he would even be sued in the first place, so he assumed the judge would just dismiss the case. The plaintiffs lawyer talked to the judge, and the judge wouldn't even listen to my dad, and then ruled in favor of the plaintiff claiming that my dad knowingly changed the stolen gold for cash, so he determined my dad would have to pay for the total gold at the highest price per oz. plus interest. My dad never received anything from the judge or lawyer after that so he assumed they dropped the case after all. A year after that, the lawyer contacts my dad demanding he give a list of all assets and pay up, and now the price has doubled, and they are also going after my grandpa for $125,000.00, who never even had any gold coins. He says if my dad doesn't pay they will take away his inheritance. There is no proof that my dad ever even handled stolen gold coins, or that the coins were stolen to begin with. There is no evidence that he had anything to do with it, or knew they were stolen. My mom is worried my grandpa will have a heart attack from all the stress and my dad i sick because of it. Is this even legal? Can anyone just point a finger and get away with whatever they want?
Your dad needs an attorney.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
It's the only advice that will do him any good. It's not clear whether he'll be able to get out of the mess that going to court without a lawyer put him in, but it's perfectly clear that the ONLY way he has a chance is with a lawyer.
 

Bria

Junior Member
He is getting a lawyer, what I was trying to understand though is how the law could even let it go this far? isnt the law here to protect innocent people? And what happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? The plaintiff even hired some private investigators, and they were shown the gold my dad was given, and even they said that wasn't the same gold that their client claimed was stolen. This whole mess just doesn't even make sense, so how could a judge just rule in favor without evidence or proof that what the plaintiff is claiming is even real? Even the police say there isn't even close to enough evidence to prosecute criminally, so why can they do it through civil litigation?
 

PaulMass

Member
The plaintiffs lawyer talked to the judge, and the judge wouldn't even listen to my dad, and then ruled in favor of the plaintiff claiming that my dad knowingly changed the stolen gold for cash, so he determined my dad would have to pay for the total gold at the highest price per oz. plus interest.
Unfortunately, that happens quite frequently. The defendant tries to talk out of turn and gets shut down by the judge. When the defendant gets to present his case, he doesn't know how to to it properly.

The judge must base the decision on the evidence before the court. The plaintiff presented evidence, but the defendant did not.
 

Bria

Junior Member
So basically anybody can point their finger at anybody, and if you want to have a chance you have to pay thousands of dollars for a lawyer? The police told my dad there was absolutly no case, so that's why he didn't think an "honorable" judge would be so quick to rule in favor of the plaintiff. Had he been able to afford an attorney at the time he would have, but the circumstances were what they were. The plaintiff is paying his own lawyer with gold coins... Yet he claimed they were all stolen. yet another fact that proves this whole thing is messed up.
 

Bria

Junior Member
The judge must base the decision on the evidence before the court. The plaintiff presented evidence, but the defendant did not.[/QUOTE]

There was no evidence though, the gold company didn't have serial numbers, the police said there was no proof the coins were actually stolen, even the private investigators hired by the plaintiff said the gold wasn't the same as the stolen coins. All they had to go off of was a he said, she said, he said, he said thing. If the coins were in fact stolen, they were passed between several other people before they ended up with my dad.
 

Bria

Junior Member
If he's that destitute, he should talk to a bankruptcy attorney.
He's not anymore, that's why he doesn't want to claim bankruptcy. The judgment happened a year after he did the loan, and it's been a year since that. It's pretty messed up that he would even have to consider banckrupcy for something he is the innocent victim of.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
There was no evidence though, the gold company didn't have serial numbers, the police said there was no proof the coins were actually stolen, even the private investigators hired by the plaintiff said the gold wasn't the same as the stolen coins. All they had to go off of was a he said, she said, he said, he said thing. If the coins were in fact stolen, they were passed between several other people before they ended up with my dad.
What matters is that your father needs to hire an attorney to get out of this mess.

Business people often require attorneys for matters that arise over the course of business operations. Landlords and real estate persons consult attorneys for individual transactions. Large corporations simply keep attorneys on staff, right in the building, easily accessed like the copiers. Such is life in a litigious society.
 

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