Keep documenting the violations?

[Shears]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

When you already 'have a case underway' (e.g., petition has been filed, has now been answered, order for temporary hearing is supposed to be set within a month per attorney, GAL to be assigned, etc.), what do you do in the meantime about the continued violations of the current custody agreement?

The 'major' issues stated as the COC are what they are (in this case, essentially medical neglect, violation of visitation terms due to residential move, general nomadic lifestyle, a few other things).

Would you spend any time fooling with continued violations (e.g., ROFR violations, morality clause violations, etc.)? While I don't think documentation of the additional issues would *hurt* this case, I also am not sure how much it *helps* it at this point, and honestly, I'm just tired. Tired of the communication required with ex to get the issues documented, because that's all it is. Documentation. The communications don't lead to any actual, immediate, constructive resolution. Ex will continue to do whatever it is she's doing, son will continue to sleep over with her boyfriend, visitation will continue to be obstructed, etc. Fooling with this has no 'immediate' benefit to our son.

However, I'll continue doing it regardless of how tired I am if it helps my attorney to have this documentation.

(I've left a message at his office with the issue du jour, but I know I'm not likely to hear back from him before it plays itself out tomorrow.)

Any advice?

 

[Silverplum]

This is such an OG question, I don't want to answer it (incorrectly).

My *guess* is yes. Document.

My advice is to get an answer from The Gal Her Ownself -->> OhioGal!

 

[mistoffolees]

This is such an OG question, I don't want to answer it (incorrectly).

My *guess* is yes. Document.

My advice is to get an answer from The Gal Her Ownself -->> OhioGal!

Absolutely document. There's no downside and the attorney may find it useful.

For example, "your honor, Mom denied visitation to Dad once" is very different than "your honor, we have document 57 cases of denied visitation in the past 12 months".

Since OP has an attorney, the attorney will know what to do with it, but the data has to come from OP.

 

[neopandora]

Document. Document. Document.

Get yourself a day planner or just print some blank calendar pages and put them in a binder - just make notes of the violations. Carry same with you to the stand (if your attorney oks same) to refer back on.

As Misto said, saying that the other parent denies you time or violates is one thing. To see you physically look back at handwritten notes over months to count them up or relay the dates is something else. I've seen this work favorably more times than I can tell you. I know many attorneys who make this a must for their clients.

On a personal note, many years ago I felt like you but I documented anyway. My son came home with what had obviously been a recent nosebleed/bloody nose still encrusted. He was an active little boy (about 3 at the time) and no other injuries but he couldn't explain how it happened (though he wasn't upset). Under other circumstances I would have chalked it up to an accident and thought nothing of it, but he was having a terrible time with allergies and ear infections and on occasion this would cause his nose to bleed. The allergist & ENT both had me keeping logs of his symptoms, etc. for treatment.

I could not get Dad on the phone so I just sent him a quick letter, completely non accusatory, just asking when and what so the doctors could document. I even gave him the info to notify them directly. He refused to tell me or the doctors. Eventually when we were in Court, this issue came up as a side point related to Dad's lack of medical care/following medical treatment for son.

Ordinarily it would have been a he said/she said. Dad's attorney tried to play it off as overprotective mother and that no nosebleed/bloody nose had ever happened. The Judge actually stopped me in the cross exam, asked to see my copy of the letter, read it and stopped all testimony and made his ruling on the issue. The Judge stated in his finding that my notes and sending Dad a prompt letter inquiring showed that it had been a matter or concern when it happened, and therefore, gave credibility to my concerns.

Long story short, such records and exact details as to dates and times can give a lot of credibility to your testimony. Document!

 

[mistoffolees]

Document. Document. Document.

Get yourself a day planner or just print some blank calendar pages and put them in a binder - just make notes of the violations. Carry same with you to the stand (if your attorney oks same) to refer back on.

As Misto said, saying that the other parent denies you time or violates is one thing. To see you physically look back at handwritten notes over months to count them up or relay the dates is something else. I've seen this work favorably more times than I can tell you. I know many attorneys who make this a must for their clients.

On a personal note, many years ago I felt like you but I documented anyway. My son came home with what had obviously been a recent nosebleed/bloody nose still encrusted. He was an active little boy (about 3 at the time) and no other injuries but he couldn't explain how it happened (though he wasn't upset). Under other circumstances I would have chalked it up to an accident and thought nothing of it, but he was having a terrible time with allergies and ear infections and on occasion this would cause his nose to bleed. The allergist & ENT both had me keeping logs of his symptoms, etc. for treatment.

I could not get Dad on the phone so I just sent him a quick letter, completely non accusatory, just asking when and what so the doctors could document. I even gave him the info to notify them directly. He refused to tell me or the doctors. Eventually when we were in Court, this issue came up as a side point related to Dad's lack of medical care/following medical treatment for son.

Ordinarily it would have been a he said/she said. Dad's attorney tried to play it off as overprotective mother and that no nosebleed/bloody nose had ever happened. The Judge actually stopped me in the cross exam, asked to see my copy of the letter, read it and stopped all testimony and made his ruling on the issue. The Judge stated in his finding that my notes and sending Dad a prompt letter inquiring showed that it had been a matter or concern when it happened, and therefore, gave credibility to my concerns.

Long story short, such records and exact details as to dates and times can give a lot of credibility to your testimony. Document!

And not just dates and times. I have a 150 page journal of things my ex did and said. We had a custody evaluator who took the whole thing. From his recommendations to the court, it appears that he read it, too.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I'm with you on the document, document, document. Make timeline notes to help you too.

 

[Shears]

Thank You

Thank you so much for the replies and advice.

This whole thing is conflicting, because I've been documenting for years, took a binder 4 inches thick to court last time, and the judge didn't even care to see it.

My attorney has to consistently remind me we're in a different county now, and the judges and courtroom atmosphere are night and day in comparison between these counties.

I'll continue the documentation. I got back on the horse today with the current issue, and have the email tirade from the ex in return, in which she confirms the violation (and is on such a holier than thou high horse she doesn't even realize her attempted display of 'power' is a direct admission of the violation), and further illustrates her utter inability to communicate like a mature adult and consequently coparent.

Sometimes I think the last judge inadvertently did me a big, expensive favor. That judge's complete lack of regard for of my concerns, and resulting validation of my ex's behavior, have caused my ex to think she's above the law, and to simply view me as an ATM who she 'allows' to see 'her' son. I am hoping beyond all hopes that the horrible last experience was a means to an end for a better outcome this go-around.

Thanks again, everyone. As always, I appreciate your insight and advice.

 

[mistoffolees]

Thank you so much for the replies and advice.

This whole thing is conflicting, because I've been documenting for years, took a binder 4 inches thick to court last time, and the judge didn't even care to see it.

My attorney has to consistently remind me we're in a different county now, and the judges and courtroom atmosphere are night and day in comparison between these counties.

I'll continue the documentation. I got back on the horse today with the current issue, and have the email tirade from the ex in return, in which she confirms the violation (and is on such a holier than thou high horse she doesn't even realize her attempted display of 'power' is a direct admission of the violation), and further illustrates her utter inability to communicate like a mature adult and consequently coparent.

Sometimes I think the last judge inadvertently did me a big, expensive favor. That judge's complete lack of regard for of my concerns, and resulting validation of my ex's behavior, have caused my ex to think she's above the law, and to simply view me as an ATM who she 'allows' to see 'her' son. I am hoping beyond all hopes that the horrible last experience was a means to an end for a better outcome this go-around.

Thanks again, everyone. As always, I appreciate your insight and advice.

The judge had every right not to look at a 4 inch binder. If you expected him to, your attorney didn't prep you properly.

No one is suggesting that you simply dump a pile of documents in front of the judge. Rather, you can compile the information and summarize it. Look at my example. You would not say:

"Your honor, she wouldn't let me see the child at 2:00 pm on June 3. Then she wouldn't let me see the child at 4 pm on June 7. And she wouldn't let me see the child at 9 am on June 12. And so on.

Rather, you would have a summary:
"Your honor, in the past year according to my memory and records, I attempted visitation 51 of the 53 times permitted me under your court order and was denied visitation 37 of those 51 attempts."

Work with your attorney on how to present it.

 

[Shears]

The judge had every right not to look at a 4 inch binder. If you expected him to, your attorney didn't prep you properly.

No one is suggesting that you simply dump a pile of documents in front of the judge. Rather, you can compile the information and summarize it. Look at my example. You would not say:

"Your honor, she wouldn't let me see the child at 2:00 pm on June 3. Then she wouldn't let me see the child at 4 pm on June 7. And she wouldn't let me see the child at 9 am on June 12. And so on.

Rather, you would have a summary:
"Your honor, in the past year according to my memory and records, I attempted visitation 51 of the 53 times permitted me under your court order and was denied visitation 37 of those 51 attempts."

Work with your attorney on how to present it.

Gotcha.

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

 

[TxPE2011]

I agree with misto- from my experience, summary is best. Out of 53 attempts, 51 were denied in the last 12 months.

I agree that specific dates and times documented does tend to back up your claims. Even if the judge does not 'look' at them. I remember my attorney holding up my journal stating, we have documented XYZ and dates and times for these violations and that was all the judge needed to 'see' was that there was an entire journal, not actually what was written down.

 

[Shears]

New Question - contempt of order

So...brief update before question:
Case is still ongoing. Currently, mediation is set for Jan 27; final hearing set for Jan 30. GAL has had one interview in office with each person: me (Dad), son, ex-wife (Mom), wife (Step-Mom). GAL has had home visit in our home. To date not sure if GAL has visited Mom's home, but had not as of Jan 6.

In December, we had a hearing because my attorney filed a motion to compel Mom to follow pediatrician's orders and effect treatment for him with the therapist (specifically the therapist we saw one time in 2010 for family history, then Mom never took son again). Judged wrote in order that Mom is to take son to Dr. N by Jan 10, and follow whatever treatment plan Dr. N advises.

Today is Jan 13. Mom has not taken son to Dr. N; Mom has made no contact whatsoever with Dr. N to schedule any appointments.

I've left a message with my attorney's secretary to ask 'what happens now', but truthfully my attorney is just not a 'communicate in between events' kind of guy. And that's OK - everything he's done in court has gone exactly as he has predicted and planned. But in the interim sometimes I stress lots of crickets between court dates.

So...out of curiosity...anyone have any experience with what generally happens when an order issued mid-case is violated, with the final hearing date forthcoming so soon? Would this likely be addressed then? Does the GAL automagically follow up on orders like this? Should my attorney be contacting the GAL? Should I? **Crystal balls please**!!!

 

[Ohiogal]

You should contact the GAL to inform her that an appointment for therapy was NOT scheduled and you would like her help in getting one scheduled for the benefit of your child.

 

[Shears]

You should contact the GAL to inform her that an appointment for therapy was NOT scheduled and you would like her help in getting one scheduled for the benefit of your child.

Thank you.