keep getting sold

[ZOIE]

What is the name of your state? Indiana I sent the validation letter within the alotted thirty days to the CA and was sent another collection letter after they received my validation letter with the cease & desist clause (sent crrr). (violation on their part) Then I sent a notice of the violation & a settlement agreement stating, they stop any and all futher collection on this alleged account & agree not to re-assign, re-sale, or re-age this account at any time. Or I will be forced to file a complaint with the BBB, FTC, Attorney General & speak to my lawyer about legal action. Well, I didn't hear from that CA again nor did they validate the debt.
But, a month later I received a letter from another CA about this same account! So, I called the first CA and asked why I received no response from my letters, they said they couldn't tell me anything because I wasn't in their computer system. This is the second time (two different debts) I've asked for validation & not received it & then am sold to another CA. How many times can this happen(being sold)? Is there anything I can do if they don't validate? How do they "run" asset checks? Thanx for any help.

 

[Ladynred]

Your validation/c&d letter worked.. to some degree, it made THAT CA go away ! Basically you gave them a hassle so they dumped it. This could go on for a long time, there's no limit on how often it can be sold. Just send the d.v. letter to the next one !

They run 'asset checks' using your credit reports basically. There are also numerous other databases where they can access all kinds of public records, its scary actually.

You can't make them stop, you can't force them to validate. As you've seen, depending on the amount, they may just duck the hassle and resell it. Just keep up the validation. Its a pain, but it DOES work.

BTW... complaining to the BBB is pretty pointless, they have no enforcement teeth whatsoever, except to *maybe* show a black mark on the paid-for record.

 

[ZOIE]

Thank you for the advice.
I know I have seened this on the forum before but I can't find it again: What is the best percentage you can hope for on a settlement agreement with a CA? He said he would have to run an asset check first before he would consider going down any further than 70%. The only assets I have are jointly owned with my husband. They are a truck, house & a travel trailer none of which have any equity (still owe on all of them). My debts total about $6,000 @ to two creditors, $3,000 to another & I don't know about the repo on my jeep. Do the CA's usually go to court on amounts this big if no settlement is made? Can they take you to court if they can't validate? Thanks

 

[Ladynred]

Depends on how old the debt is. If its recent, you can offer 35-40%.. they'll decline, but stick to your guns. His 70% is probably a lot of profit for him, he's just trying the usual dirty CA tactics on you. If its several years old, but still within the SOL, offer them 10-25%. They buy these old accounts for pennies on the dollar, anything they get over that is gravy.

He'd have to sue you to take any assets or place any liens, and unless the CA owns it, they can't sue anyway, the OC must do that.

Whatever you do, do NOT make any 'deals' over the phone, do it all in writing only and use certified RRR mail for all correspondence, otherwise they'll just screw you over.

Can they take you to court if they don't validate ? Yes, but in order for them to prove that you owe the debt, they MUST produce proof. If the jerk goes to court and has no proof and you have letters to prove that you requested validation prior to court and he didn't do it, you are more likely to have the suit dismissed.

 

[ZOIE]

The debt is about a year old. I talked to the CA again today & told him I have been unemployed for over two years (I'm still fighting for disability) & have NO income and told him I could ONLY borrow about 40%, if that much, & he said 80%. I said no & he said "I guess your not willing to work with me". Huh? He also asked if any other creditor has put a lien on my house yet! Since the CA didn't want to come down any, can I try to negotiate with the OC? Would the OC be willing to do a hardship settlement? Or should I wait to see if the CA validates? If the CA does validate will negotations be over? What is a "Citation to Discover Assets"? When is it used?
thanks, zoie

 

[Ladynred]

Have you gotten one of these citations ???
Basically it means they're trying to find out if you have anything that they can attach or take. With no income, there's not much they can get from you. Most of your personal property, if not all, are probably exempt from any judgments.

As for this stupid CA, they can't place any liens without winning a lawsuit first ! He's trying to scare you, period. His stupid statment about 'not working with him' is yet another ploy and very typcial of a jerk CA. If you don't say 'yes, I'll send you a check right away', no matter what you're offering, they will say you're refusing to pay or work with them.. ignore him !

Stop talking to this CA, it gets you nowhere whatsoever. Wait and see if they validate and ignore ALL the calls, just Do NOT talk to them. Don't ever infer that you can 'borrow' any money to pay them, that just makes them think they can pressure you even more. Once you demand validation they must cease all collection actions until they validate, and they must not 'in dispute' on your credit report. If they don't its a violation not only of the FDCPA but of the FCRA as well. If you get the green card back that indicates they have accepted your validation demand letter, then any further collection calls by them is a violation of the FDCPA as well.

If they validate, THEN you worry about a settlement. The discovery will show you have no wages they can attach and no assets they can sieze. MAYBE they'll try for a lien, but who know. If it comes down to that you ONLY communicate in writing and certified mail at that.

Wait out the 30 days and see if they validate, then take it from there.

 

[ZOIE]

No, I haven't got a citation, I just saw it on another post & wondered what it was. I was worried about some property I sold earlier this year. Can it be seized with a judgement?

 

[Ladynred]

If its not yours anymore, they can't touch it. There are exemptions from judgment in every state, as in BK, that limits what can be seized.

 

[ZOIE]

Ladynred, thank you for your good advice. But I have more questions. CA called again today & talked to my husband, CA told him they would go $50.00 a month for 6 months then renegotiate, but would need an answer by noon tomorrow, my husband told him to call & talk to me tomorrow & hung up on CA. They can't talk to someone else about my account, can they? Should I take his offer? Can the CA take legal action against me before my 30 days are up for me to ask for a validation? (Received first CA letter on 10-28-02, haven't sent my validation letter yet).
I read on an internet site that if you sell property in a certain time frame that it could be fraud if you are taken to court for non-payment of debt. Does anyone know about this? Thanx, Zoie

 

[JETX]

If its not yours anymore, they can't touch it. There are exemptions from judgment in every state, as in BK, that limits what can be seized.

Just a clarification.... depending on the specifics of an asset sale (who to, price, timing, etc.) a creditor CAN 'touch' a sold item. Simply, if the creditor can convince a court that the sale was done to avoid paying a judgment, the court could reverse the 'fraudulent conveyance'.

 

[Ladynred]

That's not all that great an offer. I wouldn't take the offer at this point in time. If they've got your validation letter (did you get the green card back yet ?), then these continued calls are violations of the FDCPA.

Once they get your letter, they MUST stop all collection actions, that includes suing you. If they take you to court and they haven't validated, you can use that in court as they have not proven its your debt. Even better if they don't have proof when THEY get there.

If you'd rather settle, YOU make them and offer, in writing, and start at a low amount. Then go from there.

Well, they're not supposed to give details to a 3rd party, but apparently spouses aren't considered 3rd parties.

Their 'noon tomorrow' ultimatum is soooo typical, and soooo bogus. If you don't do it by tomorrow, they'll 'retract', but they'll come around .. all they want is MONEY.

I'm not sure about the property transfer in this case. In BK it can be considered fraud, but I don't know about it for judgments. What kind of property are you talking about ?

Personally, I'd wait out the validation and stop talking to them, period, especially if you've gotten the green card back.

 

[JETX]

"CA called again today & talked to my husband, CA told him they would go $50.00 a month for 6 months then renegotiate, but would need an answer by noon tomorrow, my husband told him to call & talk to me tomorrow & hung up on CA."
** This is just one of many, many tactics that the scum-sucking, bottom-feeding debt collectors will try to use to get you to convert your money to their money. Don't fall for it.
Deal ONLY with the original creditor and get EVERYTHING in writing before you pay anything.

"They can't talk to someone else about my account, can they?"
** 3rd party debt collectors are not to discuss specifics about the debt with anyone but the debtor, but the FDCPA considers the spouse as the same party.
"Section 805(d) -- "consumer" definition. For section 805 purposes, the term "consumer" includes the "consumer's spouse, parent (if the consumer is a minor), guardian, executor, or administrator."

"Should I take his offer?"
** That depends entirely on your specific circumstances, but I wouldn't accept ANY offer unless in writing.

"Can the CA take legal action against me before my 30 days are up for me to ask for a validation? (Received first CA letter on 10-28-02, haven't sent my validation letter yet)."
** Most CA's can't take ANY legal action against you, unless they are the owner of the debt. And even if they are the owner, they cannot take any action while the 'validation' progress is in place. This is covered by the FDCPA (§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]), "(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. " His filing a lawsuit would be a violation of the above because the filing is NOT a cessation of debt collection.
Also of interest, to see what you can do against a violating debt collector, go to:
http://www.creditinfocenter.com/eBooks/PoorMansClassActionLawsuit.shtml

"I read on an internet site that if you sell property in a certain time frame that it could be fraud if you are taken to court for non-payment of debt. Does anyone know about this?"
** Yes, that is called a 'fraudulent conveyance' or 'fraudulent transfer' and the court could order the transaction 'reversed' if found to be an attempt to avoid payment of the judgment.

 

[ZOIE]

The property is about 14 acres of undeveloped land butting up against a railroad track along one whole side. No, I haven't got my green card back yet. But, I check on the USPS.com site to track them. I guess property transfer is a tricky thing.
(more info on the property transfer on the BK site). thanx zoie

 

[ZOIE]

I received my green card back on 11-8-02. The CA has called twice since then, one of the calls he left on my answering machine so it has been recorded. Is there a letter that I can send to the CA stating that I will settle for XX%(a very low%) of the debt, but at the same time not saying it IS my debt, and if they accept this settlement I won't pursue legal actions?

Or should I not offer any money & send a letter telling them they have violated the FDCPA? If I sent such a letter what should be the contents?

 

[JETX]

Take a look at the forms available at:
http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forms/

If you can't find one specfic to your issue, use them as a 'go-by' to create your own.