Kids refuse to see dad, kids get locked up

[>Charlotte<]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

This is for the benefit of anyone coming here for advice, who doesn't want to cooperate with custody/visitation.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/siblings-thrown-juvie-hall-refusing-see-dad/29898491/

There seems to be an awful lot of pro-Mom outrage going on at the moment, so how this story will ultimately end remains unclear.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

This is for the benefit of anyone coming here for advice, who doesn't want to cooperate with custody/visitation.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/siblings-thrown-juvie-hall-refusing-see-dad/29898491/

There seems to be an awful lot of pro-Mom outrage going on at the moment, so how this story will ultimately end remains unclear.

Wow....Just WOW!

 

[Ladyback1]

I can see why a judge would do this...
It may be the one opportunity to assess the children to determine to what exactly is going on with the situation.

Also, keep in mind, the judge may have therapy notes, counseling documentation to support her decision.

I am not anti-mom/pro-dad. I have seen just how awful some parents can be when it comes to contentious splits...

And shame on this mom for allowing it to come to this! If there were safety concerns, Mom should have handled it through the court system

 

[Just Blue]

I can see why a judge would do this...
It may be the one opportunity to assess the children to determine to what exactly is going on with the situation.

Also, keep in mind, the judge may have therapy notes, counseling documentation to support her decision.

I am not anti-mom/pro-dad. I have seen just how awful some parents can be when it comes to contentious splits...

And shame on this mom for allowing it to come to this! If there were safety concerns, Mom should have handled it through the court system

Sometimes the court system fails a parent. A few days ago a Dad in CT tried to kill himself by jumping off a bridge into the CT River. Police issues a "silver alert" for his 7 month old boy. Apparently the Mother of the child had asked a Judge to grant a RO just days before and she was told Dad was not a danger to either her or the baby.

Baby was found dead in the river. Guess Dad was a danger.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

This is for the benefit of anyone coming here for advice, who doesn't want to cooperate with custody/visitation.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/siblings-thrown-juvie-hall-refusing-see-dad/29898491/

There seems to be an awful lot of pro-Mom outrage going on at the moment, so how this story will ultimately end remains unclear.

I am absolutely appalled.

One of those children is 9 years old. You cannot tell me that putting ANY of those children in juvenile detention was "in the best interest of the children", but a NINE YEAR OLD?!! On top of that the judge ordered that the children were to be kept separate from each other as much as possible!

Those children have to be totally traumatized at this point.

 

[Silverplum]

I am absolutely appalled.

One of those children is 9 years old. You cannot tell me that putting ANY of those children in juvenile detention was "in the best interest of the children", but a NINE YEAR OLD?!! On top of that the judge ordered that the children were to be kept separate from each other as much as possible!

Those children have to be totally traumatized at this point.

Bad mother. Baaaad mother.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I'm not posting this to defend the judge's ruling (nor do I necessarily disagree with what she did). I'm just saying I wish I hadn't used the words "locked up" simply because I saw the words "juvie hall" in the article. It's misleading.

The Children's Village is administered by Detroit's DHHS. Although it does include a facility for minors in the criminal court system, Mandy's Place (which is where these kids will be), is a facility for kids from birth to 18 who are awaiting foster placement or adoption, or are deemed at-risk and are placed there for residential treatment. I'm not saying it's a magical fairy wonderland where they get to play with baby unicorns, I'm just saying it's not Supermax, jr.

The judge used the word "brainwashed" several times so for all I know some therapy in a controlled, neutral setting is the best thing for them. But right now the opinion I'm leaning toward is that if the mother was that defiant toward the court orders, she should have been locked up and custody given to dad. After all, if they were brainwashed (as the judge so adamantly declared) they're not in contempt, they're victims.

All that being said--my initial statement still stands. Litigious parents take heed. Even if they do get to play with baby unicorns, these kids are being taken from their homes because of a parent who allegedly has been acting like a spiteful, defiant bleep.

 

[LdiJ]

Bad mother. Baaaad mother.

Mom may be bad but DAD let that sentence happen. I would give up on my children entirely before I would allow them to be incarcerated in juvenile hall...and their sentence is until they are 18! Dad is the ONLY ONE who has any power to stop the trauma his children are living. They are not allowed to see their mother or any of their maternal family.

Its supposed to be about the best interest of the children...this is NOT in the best interest of ANY child.

 

[Ladyback1]

Mom may be bad but DAD let that sentence happen. I would give up on my children entirely before I would allow them to be incarcerated in juvenile hall...and their sentence is until they are 18! Dad is the ONLY ONE who has any power to stop the trauma his children are living. They are not allowed to see their mother or any of their maternal family.

Its supposed to be about the best interest of the children...this is NOT in the best interest of ANY child.

NOPE, Mom has the power as well!
Mom could either prove that Dad is a danger to children (psychological, mental/emotional and/or physical). Or Mom could get over whatever bug is in her bonnet and facilitate a relationship between the children and their father.

I do think that judge should have the children independently evaluated, and the judge should talk with the two oldest.

We don't have all the evidence that the judge does!

And did you not read the explanation/description of where the children are??

 

[Proserpina]

I'm reading the transcript before I say anything, but I'm curious as to the timeline ... when did Mom first return from Israel how long was it before she filed for divorce and custody.

That would be handy.

 

[GrandmaOH]

NOPE, Mom has the power as well!
Mom could either prove that Dad is a danger to children (psychological, mental/emotional and/or physical). Or Mom could get over whatever bug is in her bonnet and facilitate a relationship between the children and their father.

I do think that judge should have the children independently evaluated, and the judge should talk with the two oldest.

We don't have all the evidence that the judge does!

And did you not read the explanation/description of where the children are??

Actually, the children have the power to get out of this.

 

[LdiJ]

NOPE, Mom has the power as well!
Mom could either prove that Dad is a danger to children (psychological, mental/emotional and/or physical). Or Mom could get over whatever bug is in her bonnet and facilitate a relationship between the children and their father.

I do think that judge should have the children independently evaluated, and the judge should talk with the two oldest.

We don't have all the evidence that the judge does!

And did you not read the explanation/description of where the children are??

The children were put in the facility because THEY refused to interact with their father. Even if mom was willing to do whatever was necessary she would have to have the opportunity to convince the children to change their mind. She has no power to do that at this point. I also read an interview with dad and I was singularly unimpressed.

I am in the process of reading the transcript but the judge flat out said in court that dad is the ONLY one who has any power to get the oldest son released. I don't know about the other children yet.

I am even more appalled after fully reading the transcript. The way the judge treated the 9 and 10 year old was horrific, in my opinion...all of them really, but truly horrific with the 9 and 10 year olds. She demanded that they make life altering decisions, under extreme pressure and fear.

That judge needs to be permanently removed from the bench.

That judge told those children that they will be living in the facility until they are 18, unless their dad comes back to her and tells her that they have a healthy relationship with him. After reading dad's interview I see little chance of that.

 

[Proserpina]

Mom may be bad but DAD let that sentence happen. I would give up on my children entirely before I would allow them to be incarcerated in juvenile hall...and their sentence is until they are 18! Dad is the ONLY ONE who has any power to stop the trauma his children are living. They are not allowed to see their mother or any of their maternal family.

Its supposed to be about the best interest of the children...this is NOT in the best interest of ANY child.

Read the transcript.

 

[>Charlotte<]

Mom may be bad but DAD let that sentence happen.

No he didn't. He asked the judge not to do this. Begged, actually. I suppose he could have avoided it if he had given up trying to have a relationship with his kids, but...really?

The transcript is a much better resource than the article.

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/detnews/2015/pdf/showcausehearing_gorcyca.pdf

 

[single317dad]

The mother who has turned her children into monsters who not only defy their father but refuse to comply with court orders.

The father who spends more time half a world away in pursuit of wealth than near his children.

The "system" that has seen this contentious relationship time and time again for the past 6 years.

All of them failed these children. Now the children will grow to adults who will repeat the behavior. When they come here in ten years for advice, we will tell them how horrible they are because they're acting like their parents, while social media all rushes to one side or the other of an issue they know very little about.

We really should take just a little bit of time out from teaching kids to pass state achievement tests and teach them a bit about how to survive in a broken family.