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land contract

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mike_n_andrea

Guest
What is the name of your state? New York, Seller in PA


Little 'Days of our lives' scenario:

My fiance' and I moved into a house owned by my mother, and her husband, after their 'land contract' buyers bailed with no notice. At the time, we were told what a Godsend it was that we were moving in. And that we could make the payment to them until we could secure financing, and if we couldn't get it right away, they would just 'work around it, by us paying them, 'quote' "within a few days of the first of the month. The payment of $750 was made on or before the fifth of the month, with the exception of one month, Oct of this year, when our tenant bounced their rent check (we own 3 other houses) to us, causing our check to them to bounce. We took care of it immediately, no consequence to them.

Then all hell broke loose. Now you need to understand, that my grandfather, (her father) passed away last summer. Since that time, she has been 'off' a little emotionally. we got nasty grams left on our kitchen table, told that 'the best thing for us was to move into one of our other houses', and that she was listing the house with a snake of a real estate agent living a few doors down from us. Dottie has been tossed from 3 local real estate agencies, but she is a 'friend 'of moms. She called and wanted to show the house. (she also listed it as 'unattached'). We informed her that we had been led to believe that we had entered an ad hoc, open ended, albiet, verbal, land contract and that by her listing it, the seller had breached that contract. We also told her that since this came at her advice, we were prepared to sue not only her, but her local century 21 agency, and possibly the franchise, and told her to run it by their legal department, and that we were willing to go to the mat. 2 days later, the house disappeared from the listing.

Mom, (the seller) was furious. She called and Accused me of being on drugs, a rotten parent, basically the antichrist, and played the 'I can't believe you could do this to your poor sick mother card'. Which I'm not believing that she can't make the connection to what they did to us.


we got another nastygram at the beginning of Nov, stating that the payment would have to be made on the 3rd of every month. She told us to 'leave the payment with our neighbor', where she babysat, next door. She wasn't working there on the third, and had a nice talk with her on the Sun before. We went to drop off the payment on the 4rth, (which was election day, on which banks are closed.) Uncomfortable with leaving a $750 check sticking out of a door, I left a note stating that the check was on front seat of truck, in my driveway, a mere 40 feet away. nastygram. Threats, more personal attacks followed. (The neighbor and I found the note in his hedges, and I have his witness as to the fact, as well as his wife stating she saw me pulling out of her driveway)

We made our Dec payment on the 1st, and it was accepted, cashed and cleared a week later. We went about planning our holiday. A week before Christmas, we recieved yet another blindside. Seems dear sweet mother and her husband filed for bankruptcy only on this property. Again by a note, accompanied by a check left on our kitchen table. We were just blown away. Essentially, we told her (on the advice of a local lawyer, and close friend), that our only recourse was to sue her and her husband, for breach of contract, for the payoff price of the house. Apparently, her real estate friend told her that by filing bankruptcy, we couldn't sue her. Our advice has been that since this obviously just a malicious action intended to screw us (they maintain their other house, thus, their relationship with that bank). Keep in mind that this house, as well as their contract to us cost them nothing. we covered the payment, the taxes and the insurance for the last year. so here are our questions:

Is a verbal, proveable land contract enforceable?

can we sue for the value of the land contract?

does this fall under the rule of 'specific performance'

Does their filing bankruptcy (only on this property) constitute breach?

Does the personal liablity clause of a homeowner's policy cover such action?
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
mike_n_andrea said:
What is the name of your state? New York, Seller in PA


Little 'Days of our lives' scenario:

My fiance' and I moved into a house owned by my mother, and her husband, after their 'land contract' buyers bailed with no notice. At the time, we were told what a Godsend it was that we were moving in. And that we could make the payment to them until we could secure financing, and if we couldn't get it right away, they would just 'work around it, by us paying them, 'quote' "within a few days of the first of the month. The payment of $750 was made on or before the fifth of the month, with the exception of one month, Oct of this year, when our tenant bounced their rent check (we own 3 other houses) to us, causing our check to them to bounce. We took care of it immediately, no consequence to them.

Then all hell broke loose. Now you need to understand, that my grandfather, (her father) passed away last summer. Since that time, she has been 'off' a little emotionally. we got nasty grams left on our kitchen table, told that 'the best thing for us was to move into one of our other houses', and that she was listing the house with a snake of a real estate agent living a few doors down from us. Dottie has been tossed from 3 local real estate agencies, but she is a 'friend 'of moms. She called and wanted to show the house. (she also listed it as 'unattached'). We informed her that we had been led to believe that we had entered an ad hoc, open ended, albiet, verbal, land contract and that by her listing it, the seller had breached that contract. We also told her that since this came at her advice, we were prepared to sue not only her, but her local century 21 agency, and possibly the franchise, and told her to run it by their legal department, and that we were willing to go to the mat. 2 days later, the house disappeared from the listing.

Mom, (the seller) was furious. She called and Accused me of being on drugs, a rotten parent, basically the antichrist, and played the 'I can't believe you could do this to your poor sick mother card'. Which I'm not believing that she can't make the connection to what they did to us.


we got another nastygram at the beginning of Nov, stating that the payment would have to be made on the 3rd of every month. She told us to 'leave the payment with our neighbor', where she babysat, next door. She wasn't working there on the third, and had a nice talk with her on the Sun before. We went to drop off the payment on the 4rth, (which was election day, on which banks are closed.) Uncomfortable with leaving a $750 check sticking out of a door, I left a note stating that the check was on front seat of truck, in my driveway, a mere 40 feet away. nastygram. Threats, more personal attacks followed. (The neighbor and I found the note in his hedges, and I have his witness as to the fact, as well as his wife stating she saw me pulling out of her driveway)

We made our Dec payment on the 1st, and it was accepted, cashed and cleared a week later. We went about planning our holiday. A week before Christmas, we recieved yet another blindside. Seems dear sweet mother and her husband filed for bankruptcy only on this property. Again by a note, accompanied by a check left on our kitchen table. We were just blown away. Essentially, we told her (on the advice of a local lawyer, and close friend), that our only recourse was to sue her and her husband, for breach of contract, for the payoff price of the house. Apparently, her real estate friend told her that by filing bankruptcy, we couldn't sue her. Our advice has been that since this obviously just a malicious action intended to screw us (they maintain their other house, thus, their relationship with that bank). Keep in mind that this house, as well as their contract to us cost them nothing. we covered the payment, the taxes and the insurance for the last year. so here are our questions:

Is a verbal, proveable land contract enforceable?

can we sue for the value of the land contract?

does this fall under the rule of 'specific performance'

Does their filing bankruptcy (only on this property) constitute breach?

Does the personal liablity clause of a homeowner's policy cover such action?


========================================

My response:

You failed to tell us in which State the house is located. So, for purposes of this response, I will presume the State to be Pennsylvania.

You said, "Essentially, we told her (on the advice of a local lawyer, and close friend), that our only recourse was to sue her and her husband, for breach of contract, for the payoff price of the house."

Either your attorney doesn't exist, or he/she is on drugs. You've got nothing!

If your attorney actually does exist, you better have him/her research, read, and understand the Pennsylvania "Statute of Frauds" which, essentially, says that any contract for the sale or lease of land/real estate MUST be in writing to be enforceable.

Since your "contract" wasn't in writing, whether you realized it or not, you were just a "month-to-month tenant". That's it. Finito. End of story.

Your "attorney" doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

IAAL
 
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M

mike_n_andrea

Guest
I appreciate your candor. he shot from the hip, and was waiting to hear back from him. Does the same apply to New York? (where the property, and we, are located?)
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
mike_n_andrea said:
I appreciate your candor. he shot from the hip, and was waiting to hear back from him. Does the same apply to New York? (where the property, and we, are located?)

My response:

If you appreciated my candor in my first response, then you're REALLY going to "appreciate" my candor in this response . . .

You should have been clear about where the property was located in your initial post. I'm not about to "chew my cabbage twice" by researching the laws of another State.

Get, and pay for, an opinion from a local attorney - - one that knows Real Estate law.

IAAL
 
M

mike_n_andrea

Guest
just curious...are you an actual attorney? Our biggest fear was that we'd spend a ton of cash on a less than reputable attorney, and just get it further packed in out keister. We have found a fairly knowledgable atty, and he says that by ny state law we got a shot. He said he has a precedent, and that if we are patient, we have a shot to keep our home. I really thank you for the advice you've given thus far. (If you ever have an automotive problem, let me know, ....(laffs) .
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
mike_n_andrea said:
just curious...are you an actual attorney? Our biggest fear was that we'd spend a ton of cash on a less than reputable attorney, and just get it further packed in out keister. We have found a fairly knowledgable atty, and he says that by ny state law we got a shot. He said he has a precedent, and that if we are patient, we have a shot to keep our home. I really thank you for the advice you've given thus far. (If you ever have an automotive problem, let me know, ....(laffs) .

My response:

You said, "We have found a fairly knowledgable atty, and he says that by ny state law we got a shot."

Translation: "If you pay me enough money, I'll give you all the hope in the world - - even if it gets you nowhere fast."

Before you spend another cent, tell him you want the name of the case, and the cite for the case, that indicates there's "a shot".
I'd like to see it.

To answer your first question, click on the "profile" button below.

IAAL
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
mike_n_andrea said:
We have found a fairly knowledgable atty, and he says that by ny state law we got a shot. He said he has a precedent, and that if we are patient, we have a shot to keep our home.

**A: how knowledgeable is he with respect to the statute of frauds?
 
M

mike_n_andrea

Guest
not sure.....i'll find out tuesday. He did concur with your assertion that it's a no go as to any action in a pa court. The really bad thing is we aren't looking to beat anyone out of anything, as we were willing and able, as well as actually paying for the place. At this point as a standby, we are negotiating with my bank to secure funds to offer a short sale. The problem we are encountering is that, although we own property, we haven't gotten the equity in one single property to cover what we need, and the bank is reluctant to loan money on properties that are not primary residences. crossin our fingers and hoping for the best.......Thanks for the help though!
 

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