Land Use-Notice deficiency - simple variance

[pbradley]

My husband and I had the most rude experience with our local zoning board last night. We were told, among other issues, that our notice was deficient. What really offends me is that there was no prior warning as to what we were walking into. It was degrading and humiliating. I find it very distressing that the board secretary and professionals waited until we were there to inform us of the deficiencies. I used the following notice. The notice was deemed deficient because there was no reference to the exact dimensions of the additions and setbacks. To my understanding the following would cover the criteria set forth by the MLUL in NJ:

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
Please take notice that an application has been filed with the XXXXXXXXXXX
Zoning Board of Adjustment for Bulk Area and Front Setback Variances for the property shown as Block xx, Lot xx on the Tax Map of the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxTownship, commonly known as xxxxxxxAvenue, xxxx NJ 08xx7. The Applicant is seeking Bulk Area and Front Setback Variances, to permit the construction of additions to the dwelling on the previously referenced property. The Applicant will also seek any and all other variances that the Board and/or their professionals deem necessary.

The application is available for examination at the XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, during their normal business hours.

A public hearing will be conducted before the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXZoning Board of Adjustment in connection with this application at the XXXXXXXXXXHall, located at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXon the 13th day of October, 2011 at 7:30 PM. Anyone interested in this application will be given an opportunity to be heard at the aforementioned meeting.

Applicant...


I apologize I prematurely posted…my question would be if anyone can give insight into the validity of this notice. I studied the notices in the local papers and the above referenced notice reflects the level of information conveyed in many of them. Since it appeared that I was giving the same level of information other applicants had used I thought we would be covered. There is still no excuse for waiting until the meeting and pointedly telling us that we were committing illegal acts with respect to our application. I thought attorneys were supposed to be inherently tactful. This was so embarrassing in front of fellow residents of our very small town.

 

[Zigner]

My husband and I had the most rude experience with our local zoning board last night. We were told, among other issues, that our notice was deficient. What really offends me is that there was no prior warning as to what we were walking into. It was degrading and humiliating. I find it very distressing that the board secretary and professionals waited until we were there to inform us of the deficiencies. I used the following notice. The notice was deemed deficient because there was no reference to the exact dimensions of the additions and setbacks. To my understanding the following would cover the criteria set forth by the MLUL in NJ:

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
Please take notice that an application has been filed with the Weymouth Township
Zoning Board of Adjustment for Bulk Area and Front Setback Variances for the property shown as Block xx, Lot xx on the Tax Map of the Weymouth Township, commonly known as xxxxxxxAvenue, xxxx NJ 08xx7. The Applicant is seeking Bulk Area and Front Setback Variances, to permit the construction of additions to the dwelling on the previously referenced property. The Applicant will also seek any and all other variances that the Board and/or their professionals deem necessary.

The application is available for examination at the Weymouth Township Hall, located at 45 South Jersey Avenue, Dorothy, NJ 08317, during their normal business hours.

A public hearing will be conducted before the Weymouth Township Zoning Board of Adjustment in connection with this application at the Weymouth Township Hall, located at 45 South Jersey Avenue, Dorothy, NJ 08317 on the 13th day of October, 2011 at 7:30 PM. Anyone interested in this application will be given an opportunity to be heard at the aforementioned meeting.

Applicant...

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you were treated rudely.

 

[pbradley]

Land use

Thank you for your reply, it was not the board members, it was one of their professionals. Ahhh, you got to love watching your hard earned tax dollars at work. I can't believe that through application fees and property tax I paid for that grief. We all need to vote and stay involved otherwise people like this end up taking the money of innocent citizens.

 

[HomeGuru]

Thank you for your reply, it was not the board members, it was one of their professionals. Ahhh, you got to love watching your hard earned tax dollars at work. I can't believe that through application fees and property tax I paid for that grief. We all need to vote and stay involved otherwise people like this end up taking the money of innocent citizens.

**A: and thanks for your further comment.

 

[pbradley]

Land use reply

Thank you justalayman for your reply. I am also somewhat familiar with these processes, however, I am certainly no expert. I am speaking about the notice being deficient. Yes, I did speak with the secretary several times before the meeting, I asked about anything else the board professionals would need and if there was any feedback or reports available. An organized board would have this together before any meeting.

All set- backs and other relief requested were indicated in great detail in the application. There was a long narrative included in the application in addition to the plans, drawing of the proposed development. All items on the provided/required checklist were fulfilled. I thought all legal requirements were satisfied as well. We were not shot down, we were not heard because it was the solicitors judgment that notice was deficient based on content. The affidavit of notice was served to Board secretary and the solicitor almost 2 weeks before the meeting. My experience with other boards is that if there is a deficiency you are notified that you will not be placed on the agenda until certain requirements are satisfied, such as notice.

I was looking for an opinion on the content of the notice. It was deemed deficient because there was no specific information on the setbacks and dimensions of the additions in the advertisement. The variances were mentioned and what they were for. The New Jersey Planning and Land Use Administration book states:
“All notices required to be given pursuant to the terms of this chapter shall state the date, time and place of the hearing; the nature of the matters to be considered; identification of the property proposed for development by street address, if any, or by reference to lot and block numbers as shown on the current tax rolls in the Township Tax Assessor's office; and the location and times at which any maps or documents for whichapproval is sought are available as required by law.” All items mentioned above were met and my notice would have been acceptable to other boards.

As far as the comment about the tactful attorney, when my tax dollars are paying for it and he is participating in the state pension he should be respectful or there should be consequences. This attorney then told us that we didn’t need variances for two items, advised us see the zoning officer and just get a permit. When I asked for clarity in on that he took it back restated the need for the variance. They were just a mess.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

That was direction for the notice. It was not direction for the application.

 

[pbradley]

Land use

Ohroadwarrior, I am very confused at your comment. If you are referencing Justalayman regarding notice vs. application he specifically speaks about the application and it being ruled on. First an application cannot be ruled on until it is deemed complete. Additionally, a planning/zoning application cannot be heard/ruled on by a board unless notice is sufficient. So, first there should be sufficient notice than the determination of completeness followed by the hearing. Therefore, an applicant should not be included in an agenda if they are not going to be heard by the board based on deficient notice. There is plenty of time for this determination since notice is required no later than 10 days before the meeting not including the date of the meeting in NJ. At least that has always been my understanding of process generally speaking.

 

[pbradley]

Layman, this is advertised as a forum for free legal advice. Based on that information I am looking for an opinion on the content of the required meeting notice for planning/zoning meetings per the New Jersey Municipal Land Use Law. Is the content sufficient in the eyes of the law or not, that it is the information that I am searching for.

As for the comment, again, about the solicitor, my opinion of him is based on the fact that his inappropriate approach may in my mind cause the board to prejudge. My gripe with the him is that he has set the stage for us to not to get a fair hearing if the board members prejudge us on what happened at the last meeting and that we are being asked to notice in excess of the land use law.

He does not have to be nice but he should not commit any action that may harm in the venue that we meet. Any application should be considered based on its own merits not the personal opinions of the board members. I am worried that board members will prejudge us based on a skewed or incorrect legal opinion.

I would hate to leave it as I am one of those jerks that would say to my municipal clerk or any other public employee that I pay her salary. Believe it or not, I am easily satisfied. I have been a long time local government employee and know what it means to delineate between serving the public and disrespecting them. I always maintained the attitude that I was there to serve. From a resident’s perspective I have respect for the work that my local government officials and volunteers do. I have always taken pride in paying property taxes. I know they provide valuable services including police protection, trash collection and other emergency services. I also appreciate the fact that most of the public jobs out there pay less than their private counter parts.

Being a long time public servant I would never condescend to any other public employee stating that I pay their salary but public employees are truly everyone’s employee in their jurisdiction. The attitude that they are not needs to change with mutual respect from the members of the public and from the employees, easier said than ever going to happen. . I would never expect to be treated any different than anyone else or outside the parameters of the law. I feel that we were treated unfairly and that deserves to be addressed. Any complaining at this point will not change the status of our application, it is the proverbial spilled milk and we cannot recover lost time, but maybe addressing this will make it better for another resident. At this point I will give the board whatever it requests without so much as a request for a single waiver. As for addressing this to the governing body that will come when the time is right, if they even care.

Thank you for your comments, I have since retained legal counsel.

 

[justalayman]

pbradley;2930982]Layman, this is advertised as a forum for free legal advice. Based on that information I am looking for an opinion on the content of the required meeting notice for planning/zoning meetings per the New Jersey Municipal Land Use Law. Is the content sufficient in the eyes of the law or not, that it is the information that I am searching for.

that is information that is available only at the local level you are dealing with. I generally do not attempt to get so specific that I am going to ask a person their address so I can attempt to research such local rules. Since this is only a forum, I do not believe the invasion of privacy to that level is warranted.

As for the comment, again, about the solicitor, my opinion of him is based on the fact that his inappropriate approach may in my mind cause the board to prejudge.

So? Life isn't perfect but he surely has a right, neigh, a duty, to express his position on anything that passes before the council.

My gripe with the him is that he has set the stage for us to not to get a fair hearing if the board members prejudge us on what happened at the last meeting and that we are being asked to notice in excess of the land use law.

but you do not appear to know those requirements. Research them so you do know them. If they treat you improperly once you are certain you are in compliance, then you have an addressable grievance.

He does not have to be nice but he should not commit any action that may harm in the venue that we meet. Any application should be considered based on its own merits not the personal opinions of the board members. I am worried that board members will prejudge us based on a skewed or incorrect legal opinion.

Incorrect opinion? Previously you complained he was rude. Now you are stating he has addressed your application in a manner that would shine a false light upon it. Two extremely different issues. Which is it?

I would hate to leave it as I am one of those jerks that would say to my municipal clerk or any other public employee that I pay her salary.

That is what is sounded like you were going for. I believe those that make such statements are having delusions of grandeur and believe they, as an individual, carry more importance than they really do. It's humorous the first million times you see somebody embarrass themselves. After that, its simply sad.

Believe it or not, I am easily satisfied. I have been a long time local government employee and know what it means to delineate between serving the public and disrespecting them.

Good, then I was mistaken.



Being a long time public servant I would never condescend to any other public employee stating that I pay their salary but public employees are truly everyone’s employee in their jurisdiction. The attitude that they are not needs to change with mutual respect from the members of the public and from the employees, easier said than ever going to happen. . I would never expect to be treated any different than anyone else or outside the parameters of the law.

I feel that we were treated unfairly and that deserves to be addressed.

but you have yet to state a clear and concise claim that is was not due to your failing to comply with some particular rule.

Again, if the council has treated you improperly while you had complied with the rules in place, then you have a valid grievance. So far you have not shown that you had followed the rules in place and appear to be uninformed as to the specific rules you need to follow.

Best of luck to ya. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. It may be righteous but until you figure out if it is or isn't, you will appear to be the bad guy in this.

 

[pbradley]

Once again- looking for an opinion on the notice content requirements with respect to the criteria set forth in the State Statutes –Municipal Land Use Law-not local requirements- as no locality can require notice in excess of the state land use law.

Briefly, that is the heart of the issue; is the notice deficient or are we being asked to notice in excess of the law. I am looking for advice that can be supported by the law not conjecture and supposition. In my state the requirements for these items are set forth on the state level not local. That is a matter of fact. Unless there is familiarity with these laws/specific criteria this question cannot be answered with any validity.

 

[pbradley]

Pretty demanding for seeking free information. Of course if you are not happy here, you are more than welcome to pay a lawyer for the answers.
QUOTE]- Thank you - got one, mentioned above.

My last thought on this subject, your comment and this forum...demanding or not, advice is more harmful than helpful if it is fundamentally wrong. Whether a fee is paid or not, bad information is of no use to anyone. If you don't know the answer or intend to be helpful why would you comment? Free poop is still poop.

"What I have found though is regardless what the state may or may not require as to notice, it ends up being whatever the Board of Adjustment decides to put in the notice that they submit for publication. I presume they would include all necessary information to ensure the notice fulfills any legal requirements. How publication is made varies a bit from county to county. In some counties it appears there is publication in a newspaper. In others, not so. In all, it appears the Board will send the notice of a hearing via mail to all adjacent land owners. Each county I have researched does mention a sign will be posted on the property in the request." - this entire paragraph is contrary to what is accepted in this state, I will submit, it may be the practice elsewhere, but not here.

ALL of the abovementioned is invalid here-especially the sign placement. A local board in this state was sued over that very demand.

 

[pbradley]

Sued and lost because the local board forced the applicant to advertise in excess of the legal/state requirement.

All advertising is the responsibility of the applicant in this state. as outlined N.J.S.A. 40:55D:

40:55D-11. Contents of notice of hearing on application for development (variance)or adoption of master plan
Notices pursuant to section 7.1 and 7.2 of this act shall state the date, time and place of the hearing, the nature of the matters to be considered and, in the case of notices pursuant to subsection 7.1 of this act, an identification of the property proposed for development by street address, if any, or by reference to lot and block numbers as shown on the current tax duplicate in the municipal tax assessor's office, and the location and times at which any maps and documents for which approval is sought are available pursuant to subsection 6b.

. Notice pursuant to subsections a., b., d., e., f., g. and h. of this section shall be given by the applicant unless a particular municipal officer is so designated by ordinance (this is not the case here-there is no one designated to provie notice-generally there never is); provided that nothing contained herein shall prevent the applicant from giving such notice if he so desires. Notice pursuant to subsections a., b., d., e., f., g. and h. of this section shall be given at least 10 days prior to the date of the hearing.

Except as provided in paragraph (2) of subsection h. of this section, notice of a hearing requiring public notice pursuant to subsection a. of this section shall be given to the owners of all real property as shown on the current tax duplicates, located in the State and within 200 feet in all directions of the property which is the subject of such hearing; provided that this requirement shall be deemed satisfied by notice to the (1) condominium association, in the case of any unit owner whose unit has a unit above or below it, or (2) horizontal property regime, in the case of any co-owner whose apartment has an apartment above or below it. Notice shall be given by: (1) serving a copy thereof on the property owner as shown on the said current tax duplicate, or his agent in charge of the property, or (2) mailing a copy thereof by certified mail to the property owner at his address as shown on the said current tax duplicate.L.1975, c. 291, s. 7,

It goes on and on...

So, my last post wasn't my last thought...I can't help myself...I had to look again! Though, I resolve not to post again!~ Maybe.~I guarantee nothing!

There is, if you are interested in this sort of information in general, a great web site- General Code: laserfiche;codification;document management;municity;novusagenda;municipal codifier;municipal codes;laserfiche document imaging;municipal software;ordinances;municipal codification that has many municipal code books in many states available for view on line. Also, many states have their statutes available on the legislative sections of their state websites.

 

[pbradley]

hook, line and sinker over here....

The "development" is an addition to an existing home, for which a variance is sought, when a variance is required, notice for the public hearing is also required...Same notice requirements apply for a major subdivision(which I imagine is the "development" you are referencing), site plan or some other type of proposed "development" in this area that may require board review.

 

[justalayman]

I see why the lawyer treated you as they did.

It's pretty simple:

if you pissed off the powers that be and you believe you are correct, file for a writ of mandamus. If you haven't pissed off everybody so much they won't assist you, ask them what there requirements are.

You seem to have problems doing what thousands of others are doing every day without difficulty. I suspect there is more to the issue than you relate here.

Sued and lost because the local board forced the applicant to advertise in excess of the legal/state requirement.

well, review of that case should provide some insight to what the courts believe the Board can demand.

 

[rowz]

OP, you are rreally barking up the wrong tree.
I am in NJ and have dealt with several of these Zoning /Planning Boards before and have the best advice for you.

See below.


You expected a Board Secretary to provide you with a how to do it lesson and that is NOT their job and not the way it works.
If the attitude that you have expressed here [and I realize how aggrieved and aggravated that you are] is suggestive of how you dealt with the local officilas, then it is very clear why your situation ended up the way it did.

Their job is to take your application and process iit...NOT to see that it is done right. Whether ir not it seems right or fair does not matter it is your responsibility to do it right.

If I read your initiallpost right, you neglected to provide someiinfoonthe app.
Th Board is not required to allow you a "do over" at the time ofthe hearing due toyour incomplete info. The public notice you putin the paperisnotice toothers who are interest to go and review your app....which was incomplete and thus not a true representation of what you were lookking to do.

So....here is the soloution. Attend several Zoning meetings and follow the applications of others and see what they submit and how it is treated by the officials.



OR

Spend the $ and hire an atty. who makes these applications at the local level to do it for you.

Welcome to NJ...one of the most regulated Land Use areas of the country.

Deal with it & stop whining.