Last Minute advice?

[BalloonGirl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH

Ok, it's Thanksgiving, I know most people are hopefully not online, and are enjoying a nice breakfast before starting the cooking and celebrating of the day...

But here's my dilemma.

I have 3 kids with my ex husband.

We have, in the past 6+ years of our divorce, agreed to forgo the decree visitation, and instead - he has the kiddos Wed night - Sunday night of Thanksgiving weekend, regardless of whose visitation weekend it is, and ignoring splitting Turkey Day. I get all of Easter weekend in exchange. Easter means more to me, T-day more to him, the kids are better off by enjoying a full holiday at each without the driving (it's 45 minutes between our homes.)

This year, dad throws a fit b/c 2 of the 3 DD's have bball practice Wednesday night, and insists that we follow the decree to the letter, I bring all kiddos up at 4PM, and he brings them to me at noon Tday. Then, it's his weekend, so I bring them back at 5 PM Friday.

I give him every opportunity to be flexible and rever to our agreed upon (as recently as this past SUNDAY / MONDAY night) schedule of bringing them up after bball practice (7:30 they would be there), and staying through Sunday, or following the "decree schedule."

He insists on the decree schedule (even leaving a threatening message on my answering machine - that the kids heard) spelling out what he said was to happen, or he'd get the law involved. (Mind you, our decree does have in it that is is required to bring them to all their activities that fall during his visitation...)

So... I truck the little ones up last night. Get a phone call this am from kiddos, "Dad asked us, 'don't you guys just want to stay with me all weekend instead of having to go back and forth to moms?"

Of course they do - it is what they expected to do in the first place, and they have bunches of out of town cousins to play with - instead of me and my sisters and parents. Way more fun.

I know it's in their best interest to stay there and enjoy the weekend - but I am angry. It was totally his choice to change our arrangement, but now he is using the kids to get the whole weekend anyway.

I am tired of his manipulations.

I have told the kids they can stay, because it is what they want.

Any advice? I have to reply to his email requesting they stay all weekend now.

I want to say, sorry, you chose to follow the decree, and tough luck for you.

But, then the kids lose out, and they come first.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

So, it's a "follow the court order for MOM", but I can do whatever I want.

Get any agreement you have in WRITING, and then follow it. Do NOT let the children manipulate you. If the children complain, then just state that the parents had made an agreement before and the PARENTS decide what happens.

He'll continue to do this as long as you let him do so.

And it might best be in your best interest to either change the court order to reflect the "He gets Thanksgiving and you get Easter" in your court order.

Court orders are your friend. They spell out the rules for everyone.

 

[BalloonGirl]

So, it's a "follow the court order for MOM", but I can do whatever I want.

Get any agreement you have in WRITING, and then follow it. Do NOT let the children manipulate you. If the children complain, then just state that the parents had made an agreement before and the PARENTS decide what happens.

He'll continue to do this as long as you let him do so.

And it might best be in your best interest to either change the court order to reflect the "He gets Thanksgiving and you get Easter" in your court order.

Court orders are your friend. They spell out the rules for everyone.

That's exactly right - I have a long list of violations of the decree in the past 3 months, and have already contacted my attorney to go back to court.

Mom has to follow, he doesn't.

I already told the kids they could stay. I guess I shouldn't have, but one of the major problems I am facing in his violations of the court order is him bashing me to the kids (ie: Mom takes all my money for child support so I have nothing left, Mom is so stupid, she wants my tax returns, Mom is forcing me to take you to your practices when we could go shopping instead, Mom is taking me back to court and it is going to take all the money I had saved to buy you a car, etc...) and I don't want THE CHILDREN stressed and upset this weekend. It's been bad enough for me.

I know he will keep on doing it and I have tried to put my foot down.

It's a holiday. I don't want the kids upset, so I agreed.

I need to reply to him. I would like to say that I find his behavior despicable and manipulative, it is in the CHILDREN's best interests to not split the holiday, which is why we agreed on the Thanksgiving / Easter split in the first place.

I'm at a loss as to how to word it. The kids should not be put in the middle - that is what he has done, and I don't want it to be worse for them.

 

[BalloonGirl]

And it might best be in your best interest to either change the court order to reflect the "He gets Thanksgiving and you get Easter" in your court order.

Court orders are your friend. They spell out the rules for everyone.

I have a number of items in the court order I want modified - I will add this to the list, thank you for the advice...

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

My X is king of manipulation. I know the WHOLE drill - I wear the T-shirt.

What normally happens is that the children do see it as they get older. I took the high road and didn't say much. It might be something to the line of, "This is an adult only conversation. I will NOT discuss this with you.", etc.

My oldest sees it now for what it was. Younger daughter is finally "getting it."

Patience.

 

[BalloonGirl]

My X is king of manipulation. I know the WHOLE drill - I wear the T-shirt.

What normally happens is that the children do see it as they get older. I took the high road and didn't say much. It might be something to the line of, "This is an adult only conversation. I will NOT discuss this with you.", etc.

My oldest sees it now for what it was. Younger daughter is finally "getting it."

Patience.

My oldest (13) does see it.

"This is an adult only conversation. I will NOT discuss this with you." I use that all the time. All the time.

I'm angry he did this, and my only LEGAL recourse, as I understand it, is to tell him to bring kiddos back at noon per the decree.

Which, I feel is not in kiddos' best interest.

This is what I have written so far:
You insisted on following the decree to the letter. Asking the children, "don't you want to stay here all Thanksgiving," is completely inappropriate after the arrangements have been agreed upon - by your choice.

YOU chose the visitation pattern for this weekend, and placing the children in the middle like that is clearly making me out to be the bad guy if I tell you that the visitation YOU SELECTED will be followed. A choice should never have been given to the children - visitation is set by adults, and enforced by adults.

However, since I feel it is in the children's best interests to have an uninterrupted holiday with you (Thanksgiving) and one with me (Easter) as we have previously agreed, I will allow the children to stay with you through Sunday evening.

This issue will be brough up to the counselor as a prime example of your manipulative behavior, to show how you put the children in the middle of adult issues on a regular basis.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

When setting the tone of writing, beware of "you messages" versus "I messages."

Yes, you are angry - rightfully so. But, don't add fuel to the fire.

Anger = increased court costs = increase attorney fees.

Now, there are times where it IS appropriate to bring it to court. I went to court this summer to be allowed to take over making the travel arrangements for my youngest. (Remember - king of manipulation). The judge deemed ME the reasonable one on the arrangements; I also agreed to bear the cost of said travel arrangement. I figured it was cheaper to pay for the travel than it was to pay the attorney fees.

 

[BalloonGirl]

When setting the tone of writing, beware of "you messages" versus "I messages."

Yes, you are angry - rightfully so. But, don't add fuel to the fire.

Anger = increased court costs = increase attorney fees.

Now, there are times where it IS appropriate to bring it to court. I went to court this summer to be allowed to take over making the travel arrangements for my youngest. (Remember - king of manipulation). The judge deemed ME the reasonable one on the arrangements; I also agreed to bear the cost of said travel arrangement. I figured it was cheaper to pay for the travel than it was to pay the attorney fees.

This would potentially be something to bring to court?

How would you word my response to not add fuel to the fire?

(Maybe our ex's get together and figure out ways to manipulate us... how do we ever stop it?)

 

[haiku]

Well,he is a hothead who doesn't think about the big picture, doesn't he?

I for one hate the sports schedules when trying to do visitation with some distance involved, at one point, I remember 'our" 3 kids were in soccer, one of which was a traveling team, it was horrible on visitation weekends as we had no close by home base. There was lots of time in the car and lots of mcdonalds

It would have smarter for dad to kindly ask if he could get the children after practice was done, and then just do your usual thing if I have read this right.

my husbands order is also in New Hampshire, my advice is to caution you about what you put in writing. my husband will only communicate with his ex in writing as finally the judge actually read them, and it ended up biting his ex.

keep everything short and sweet. Don't go into detail. just tell him, he can keep the children for the weekend and end it there. I have a feeling telling him he is putting the kids in the middle, is not going to suddenly make him realize he is. It will likely only fuel the argument. I would save the actual discussion for your time with the mediator.

If you are going back to court, when you plan the holiday arrangement have your lawyer outline EXACTLY what you want for thanksgiving and easter in the future.

 

[BalloonGirl]

Well,he is a hothead who doesn't think about the big picture, doesn't he?

I for one hate the sports schedules when trying to do visitation with some distance involved, at one point, I remember 'our" 3 kids were in soccer, one of which was a traveling team, it was horrible on visitation weekends as we had no close by home base. There was lots of time in the car and lots of mcdonalds

It would have smarter for dad to kindly ask if he could get the children after practice was done, and then just do your usual thing if I have read this right.

my husbands order is also in New Hampshire, my advice is to caution you about what you put in writing. my husband will only communicate with his ex in writing as finally the judge actually read them, and it ended up biting his ex.

keep everything short and sweet. Don't go into detail. just tell him, he can keep the children for the weekend and end it there. I have a feeling telling him he is putting the kids in the middle, is not going to suddenly make him realize he is. It will likely only fuel the argument. I would save the actual discussion for your time with the mediator.

If you are going back to court, when you plan the holiday arrangement have your lawyer outline EXACTLY what you want for thanksgiving and easter in the future.

Thank you.
I'm just frustrated and angry and sad for my kids...

Happy Turkey Day everyone... peace

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Go ahead and create a "draft" of your letter and put it aside. Do NOT ever put anything in writing when totally heated. My X's diatribes is what did him in also. I am queen of the 4 sentence emails. Keep them short and sweet and eliminate the emotions.

You see - his long diatribes gave me insight to his strategy. I KNEW how to counter them in court. He never knew my angle since I refused to put it all out there.

 

[CJane]

Why not just email him back and say --- The kids can stay through the weekend. Happy Thanksgiving!

You CAN and SHOULD file to modify the parenting time schedule (NOT CUSTODY!) so that it mirrors status quo.

 

[maryjo]

Its the holidays and I personally think that if you can, visitation schedules should become very flexible during this time.

In the past three years I have definately done more then flexing than my ex has but this is what I have learned. Pick your battles. If you blow up over everything he does to piss you off then he will NEVER work with you.

I let my ex change his schedule as often as he likes. Because then, on the rare occassion that I need something...he is more apt to go with it. And its worked.

He had definately tried many, many things to upset me and I never let him see it. He never knows. I just keep giving kindess back to him..when most times I would love to run him over with my car! LOL! And when he does upset me to the point I cant hide it, I just keep things very short. I only communicate through text messages during that time but thats pretty much the only way we communicate regardless.

I wouldnt let this get to you too much. Just blow it off for now and keep it tucked away for when you need it later. And yes, when you go to court, definately get something nailed down.

 

[purplegreen]

Why not just email him back and say --- The kids can stay through the weekend. Happy Thanksgiving!

This exactly follows my thinking on communicating with a co-parent. Just the facts, no negative editorial and a friendly wish that he and the kids have a great time.

All the you said, I said, we agreed, follow the order to the exact letter, etc... when expressed to the other parent does nothing towards creating a good co-parenting relationship. It nearly always comes across as controlling. A better plan would be to document your concerns for future reference if needed but take the high road. You've already decided that the kids can go so why poke the bear and possibly send them off with a pizzed off dad?

 

[gr8rn]

so why poke the bear?

That's good. We used to call it "wake the sleeping giant"