LAST TWO QUESTIONS! I swear!

[upontheventura]

What is the name of your state?NH
I was checking out Chapter 13 possibilities as well. Part of me would like to pay back these two creditors something. Going over everything, and adding back in my 5% 401 K that I have taken out of my paycheck (adding that in as income, which I didnt know until reading this board recently-Thank you Ladyinred) I am at +175.00 per month. The only thing i could not figure out were my student loans. Can i count that $106.00 per month in Schedule J under installment payments? DO the student loans count all in my expenses- or are they like credit cards? I am really on the border of 7 and 13. And i will be keeping my appt with the laywer on Oct 4th.lol. SO much for doing it on my own. I was fine with Chapter 13 until I read at Nolo.com that the court WOULD MOST LIKELY INSIST that the plan payment would HAVE to be taken out of my paycheck. NO WAY. I am in a small company of 400 people- it would be humiliating. Anyone have any experience with that aspect of Chapter 13?

 

[kopes]

Again, states are different, but when I filled out my paperwork my lawyer told me to put the student loans under unsecured creditors, because that is what they are. But, the monthly loan payment was added to my expenses in the "other" category. My lawyer told me because they are not dischargable and I still have to make payments, they can be added to expenses. I don't know much about ch13, but I've heard many, many people say the payment is taken from their paychecks.

 

[NancyLou9]

Little known law about Student loans and BK

If you can show the judge that paying them back would cause undue hardship, they can be discharged. Only a federal judge can do this and these are the judges that take care of bankruptcy...

Our BK lawyer thinks he can get mine discharged because the fees and interest have tripled the original loan amount and I have already paid $7500 on a $5000 loan. The DOE says I still owe another $7500 on an original debt of $5000.

 

[Ladynred]

If you can show the judge that paying them back would cause undue hardship, they can be discharged. Only a federal judge can do this and these are the judges that take care of bankruptcy...

You might as well put that notion right out of your head ! You have to be practically at death's door with no hope of recovery in order to get a hardship discharge of student loans. You must meet ALL the criteria for hardship, I believe its 9 items, otherwise you don't get any relief from them.

The student loans go on your schedule as an Expense and it DOES get figured in, just like a house or car loan would, since 99.9% of the time they are NOT dischargable.

I'd be willing to bet you're still underestimating your expenses, most people do.

 

[AttorneyOney]

The standards for "undue hardship" to discharge student loans vary greatly from circuit to circuit, and even from judge to judge within a circuit. There is as yet no definitive ruling on what test should be applied from either the First Circuit Court of Appeals or from the Bankruptcy Appellate Panel in the First Circuit. Some debtors win here, and some don't. A pro-se debtor probably has no chance of prevailing, in part because many of these cases have to go up on appeal. We had a case in Massachusetts recently where a pro-se won, though -- she had graduated from law school but had so much trouble passing the bar exam that she had to give up and go to work as a school bus driver. She handled her appeal to the BAP just fine.

 

[upontheventura]

I do not want my student laons discharged~ Hey LadyInRed- here are my expenses for a

single person- no dependents. By the way, I had forgotten my $138.00 car insurance payment per month and I have figured in my student loan- brings me to about negative 200. Let me know what you think of my expenses~Only one that is kind of worrisome is my food estimate- but I really do spend that much! This is based on the actual New Hampshire form that i am using. I really want to do this myself.
Gross Income:3900
Take home(after subtracting taxes/health insurance only) is
$2600.00
Rent:1100
Electric:50
Telephone:50
Cable and Internet(this i put in the "Other" section: 75
Food: 325
Clothing: 50
Laundry/Dry Cleaning: 50 (i do use the cleaners and a coin op)
Dental expenses: 75
Transportation I have a 35 mile commute each way-(fuel/tolls/maintenance) 325
Recreation/magazines/entertainement: 40
Car payment: 366
Renters Insurane: 11
Auto Ins: 138
Student Loan: 106
I am at negative 180 or so.

 

[Ladynred]

Well, if you're negative then you're probably ok, but a few things come to mind:

Do you ever have your shoes repaired ?
Do you get your hair cut ??
Do you buy personal hygiene products ?
Do you buy things like light bulbs, and other small things any renter would usually pay out of their own pocket for your apartment ?
Do you buy products to use to clean your home ??
Do you buy any postage or pay for any shipping in the course of a year ?
Do you pay any montly fees to your bank for your account(s), or buy checks ??
Does your auto maintenance include money for MAJOR unexpected repairs or just oil changes, tire rotations, and transmission fluid ? How often do you buy tires for your car ?? Make sure its all figured into that number.
Do you wear glasses ? Do you have co-pays for medical ?
Do you have a cell phone ? They're not a luxury item any more.
Does your laundry expense cover what you pay to buy laundry products or did you just include the quarters you stick in the machines ??

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more things, but its all stuff most of us spend on a regular basis as a course of our daily living.

 

[upontheventura]

Ladyinred- you are AMAZING.lol Tell me something

everything you said above applies to me- but the NH form doesnt have spaces for those things- unlike the forms i downloaded from BankruptcyAction.com- which gave more expenses to put on... Should i add those in to my totals per month? As far as major repairs on my car- all the time- but 325 seemed high as it was- 200 for gas(right on the money) 40 for tolls(exactly 2.00 a day)then another 70 a month which would be 840 per year...hmmmm. Anyway, I am trying to be SO careful because pro se is how i want to go. Only snag i am in is regarding my car. I really want to keep making payments(have always been on time) but do not want to reaffirm. And i dont HAVE to in NH. AND i would need a lawyer representing me, otherwise it would have to go to a hearing, which im willing to do if it comes down to it. If i DONT keep my car, I will be at +150 (at least based on my conservative estimates.

 

[Ladynred]

Use the FEDERAL forms. Just because there's no like for it doesn't mean its not an allowed expense.

Understand being careful, but don't cut your own throat either.

Why do you need a lawyer to reaffirm ?? People do it pro se all the time.