Liability if a lease is renewed and you are no longer a co-signer?

[Mtnstyne2001]

I was a co-signer on an apartment lease in Colorado when I lived there and was in the military. I separated from the military and moved to Tennessee. When I moved the other renters remained in the apartment through the completion of the initial lease that I was cosigned to and it was completed in full.

The other renters remained in the apartment after I moved and signed a new lease that I was not on.

I recently received a letter from a debt collector presuming I owe a debt to the apartment complex for that apartment. It is an initial debt letter so it has not yet been validated and I do not know the basis for their claim.

I think it is obvious if the debt is for unpaid rent on the second lease I have no liability.

My assumption is that the debt is based on damages by the tenants when they moved out during the second lease. Since I was not on the lease at this time would the apartment have any claim to damages against me on the apartment?


Thanks

 

[Zigner]

I was a co-signer on an apartment lease in Colorado when I lived there and was in the military. I separated from the military and moved to Tennessee. When I moved the other renters remained in the apartment through the completion of the initial lease that I was cosigned to and it was completed in full.

The other renters remained in the apartment after I moved and signed a new lease that I was not on.

I recently received a letter from a debt collector presuming I owe a debt to the apartment complex for that apartment. It is an initial debt letter so it has not yet been validated and I do not know the basis for their claim.

I think it is obvious if the debt is for unpaid rent on the second lease I have no liability.

My assumption is that the debt is based on damages by the tenants when they moved out during the second lease. Since I was not on the lease at this time would the apartment have any claim to damages against me on the apartment?


Thanks

Before you (or we) waste time on what-ifs, I suggest that you find out what this is about...

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

Before you (or we) waste time on what-ifs, I suggest that you find out what this is about...

That's helpful.

This is how this is going to play out. I received the debt letter Saturday. The original creditor won't respond to questions, only that it has been turned over to collections. No other communication regarding a debt had been attempted by the apartment management. The debt letter was my first notification.

I sent a certified letter today to the debt collector requesting them to validate the debt and provide verification or judgement as well as an accounting of the amount.

In a few weeks/months I will get their response which will not have any information other than what is required by law. They are only required to provide a print out of the amount owed with the name of the original creditor under the validation section 809 of the FDCPA. The FDCPA does not require any accounting of the debt and based on research it is very unlikely to be provided.

When I get their response I will be in the same exact position with the same exact question as I am now. These questions will most likely only be addressed if the collection agency decides to sue for the debt and we go to court.

While I am standing in court with my documents and testimony I won't have the luxury of requesting free advice on this free advice forum. I have a tendency to PREPARE by war-gaming the different scenarios and coming up with my various courses of action BEFORE I need to act upon them. That is why I am asking the question now.

I have spoken to the other tenants and I am pretty confident this debt is as described in my original question.

No disrespect, but if answering the question about liability for damages if not on the lease is a waste of your time please just click on and allow someone else to answer the question.

If you have other advice on how to obtain the accounting of the debt I am open to any additional wisdom you can provide.

 

[Zigner]

That was a very eloquent tantrum that you threw simply because I told you that guessing at this matter won't do anybody any good.

That's helpful.

This is how this is going to play out. I received the debt letter Saturday. The original creditor won't respond to questions, only that it has been turned over to collections. No other communication regarding a debt had been attempted by the apartment management. The debt letter was my first notification.

I sent a certified letter today to the debt collector requesting them to validate the debt and provide verification or judgement as well as an accounting of the amount.

In a few weeks/months I will get their response which will not have any information other than what is required by law. They are only required to provide a print out of the amount owed with the name of the original creditor under the validation section 809 of the FDCPA. The FDCPA does not require any accounting of the debt and based on research it is very unlikely to be provided.

When I get their response I will be in the same exact position with the same exact question as I am now. These questions will most likely only be addressed if the collection agency decides to sue for the debt and we go to court.

While I am standing in court with my documents and testimony I won't have the luxury of requesting free advice on this free advice forum. I have a tendency to PREPARE by war-gaming the different scenarios and coming up with my various courses of action BEFORE I need to act upon them. That is why I am asking the question now.

I have spoken to the other tenants and I am pretty confident this debt is as described in my original question.

No disrespect, but if answering the question about liability for damages if not on the lease is a waste of your time please just click on and allow someone else to answer the question.

If you have other advice on how to obtain the accounting of the debt I am open to any additional wisdom you can provide.

 

[HRZ]

IT ispossible that the terms of the initial lease roll over to the new lease which is not new in traditional sense but an extension of old lease and you are bound over by the language ...devil MIGHT be in details

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

IT ispossible that the terms of the initial lease roll over to the new lease which is not new in traditional sense but an extension of old lease and you are bound over by the language ...devil MIGHT be in details

Thanks, I am looking for the original lease now to review. I actually have a copy of the renewed one without my name because I asked for it when I left.

Appreciate the response.

 

[latigo]

I was a co-signer on an apartment lease in Colorado when I lived there and was in the military. I separated from the military and moved to Tennessee. When I moved the other renters remained in the apartment through the completion of the initial lease that I was cosigned to and it was completed in full.

The other renters remained in the apartment after I moved and signed a new lease that I was not on.

I recently received a letter from a debt collector presuming I owe a debt to the apartment complex for that apartment. It is an initial debt letter so it has not yet been validated and I do not know the basis for their claim.

I think it is obvious if the debt is for unpaid rent on the second lease I have no liability.

My assumption is that the debt is based on damages by the tenants when they moved out during the second lease. Since I was not on the lease at this time would the apartment have any claim to damages against me on the apartment? Thanks

Assuming that you commitment expired with the expiration of the term of the initial lease I think you have a strong defensive argument either way. That is, whether the claim is for delinquent rent or damages. As it is not reasonable to believe that the landlord would have relet the property if either condition existed.

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

Follow-up question as a run the scenarios through;

If the collection agency does decide to take this to court and sue for the amount what are their options on the location of the case? Would it likely be in the state I reside (TN) or would they be able to file in the location of the debt (CO) and require me to travel? I checked out the agency and they have an office in TN. Again, just trying to get information to make decisions on and appreciate the help.

 

[latigo]

Follow-up question as a run the scenarios through;

If the collection agency does decide to take this to court and sue for the amount what are their options on the location of the case? Would it likely be in the state I reside (TN) or would they be able to file in the location of the debt (CO) and require me to travel? I checked out the agency and they have an office in TN. Again, just trying to get information to make decisions on and appreciate the help.

You are susceptible to being sued in the State of Colorado as allowed by Colorado's Long Arms Statute as doing business in that state and because the guarantee related to the possession of real property situated within that state. (See: Colorado Revised Statutes Section 13-1- 124 subsections (a) And (c).

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

That was a very eloquent tantrum that you threw simply because I told you that guessing at this matter won't do anybody any good.

Thanks, glad I could entertain you. If you are entertained and again you decided to take the time to respond, is it really me wasting your time or are you just choosing to waste your own time?

We work with facts and assumptions when making decision. The facts are limited in their details in my situation so assumptions have to made to in order to move forward and make informed decisions. In order to make assumptions the "what-ifs" are used in war-gaming and then what remains are gaps in information. Those gaps have to be researched as best as possible in order to make a decision on the next step. This is very basic decision making processing.

I understand it would be much easier if we had all the facts up front but that is not the case at hand. I have requested additional information to close those gaps and if received will reevaluate the situation based on those facts. Maybe hidden in your original response was some hidden wisdom but I must have missed it.

Also, NOT guessing at this matter is only good for the debt collector. I am not one who sits on my hands. I am serious in this next question.

What would you recommend?

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

You are susceptible to being sued in the State of Colorado as allowed by Colorado's Long Arms Statute as doing business in that state and because the guarantee related to the possession of real property situated within that state. (See: Colorado Revised Statutes Section 13-1- 124 subsections (a) And (c).

Awesome, again thanks for your help. That adds quite a wrinkle in the decision making process. The amount claimed is probably less than what it would cost to travel out there to contest it if sued.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks, glad I could entertain you. If you are entertained and again you decided to take the time to respond, is it really me wasting your time or are you just choosing to waste your own time?

We work with facts and assumptions when making decision. The facts are limited in their details in my situation so assumptions have to made to in order to move forward and make informed decisions. In order to make assumptions the "what-ifs" are used in war-gaming and then what remains are gaps in information. Those gaps have to be researched as best as possible in order to make a decision on the next step. This is very basic decision making processing.

I understand it would be much easier if we had all the facts up front but that is not the case at hand. I have requested additional information to close those gaps and if received will reevaluate the situation based on those facts. Maybe hidden in your original response was some hidden wisdom but I must have missed it.

Also, NOT guessing at this matter is only good for the debt collector. I am not one who sits on my hands. I am serious in this next question.

What would you recommend?

You've already had people willing to waste their time on your purely hypothetical (at this point) situation.

 

[Mtnstyne2001]

You've already had people willing to waste their time on your purely hypothetical (at this point) situation.

Yes, including yourself. I appreciate the input from the others as that is the purpose of a forum from my simple understanding. You are a puzzle Zigner, you are concerned about wasting time yet you continue to do so when you could simply move on. For half the time you have already wasted you could have provided an opinion based on your experience. If you don't have experience you could simply move on. I belong to numerous other forums, some subjects of which I have expertise. When I don't have an informed answer or experienced based experience I simply don't respond.

While I would enjoy debating what a waste of time it is to have a debate about wasting time I don't think you would get the irony.

 

[LdiJ]

You've already had people willing to waste their time on your purely hypothetical (at this point) situation.

Huh? Hypothetical? How?

What the OP described as far as the validation process is concerned was spot on, and what the OP described as the original creditor's response to questions was classic.

This is why I hate the whole collections industry as it has developed in the US. An alleged creditor can send a totally bogus debt to collections with absolutely no consequences to them. Therefore they have absolutely no incentive to investigate their own mistakes and take appropriate action. They just send it to collections and bow out of all responsibility.

 

[Zigner]

Huh? Hypothetical? How?

What the OP described as far as the validation process is concerned was spot on, and what the OP described as the original creditor's response to questions was classic.

This is why I hate the whole collections industry as it has developed in the US. An alleged creditor can send a totally bogus debt to collections with absolutely no consequences to them. Therefore they have absolutely no incentive to investigate their own mistakes and take appropriate action. They just send it to collections and bow out of all responsibility.

It is hypothetical because the OP wants us to guess at every possible scenario. For all he knows, they're suing him because they never got the keys back...or maybe he back in to a gate as he was moving out and now they want him to pay. Until he knows WHY they are asking for money, this is all hypothetical.