LL won't return deposit

[CharlesDeMar]

Jurisdiction: Kentucky

I moved out in January. Nothing was broken, and I left the unit cleaner than when I moved in.

Despite several phone calls, I've still not received my deposit. Further, during one call, the LL told me that the agreement said that if I stayed less than a year, I'd forfeit my deposit. At the time, I couldn't locate my copy (temporarily misplaced in the move). After finding the agreement, I saw that it said that if I moved out before the term of the lease was up, I'd forfeit the deposit. The term was less than a year, and I stayed the whole term.

I'm planning on sending a demand letter (via certified mail). My question is: Whom should I put in the CC section?

I want to send copies to enough officials to motivate this deadbeat to send my deposit back to me.

 

[LL]

Nobody.

First, it won't do you any good.
Second, its very unprofessional.
Third, it will look unprofessional to a judge, if you have to go that far.

Send a demand letter, follow it up with a suit if necessary, and then go before a judge and show your proof.

 

[CharlesDeMar]

What do you mean by "unprofessional"?

 

[LL]

At this point, you have an as yet unproven allegation that your landlord cheated you. It may be very true, but when you go to court, you will need to prove your case by facts, logic and evidence.

Extending your presentation to "motivate" the landlord to send back your deposit without logic and proof is very likely to be seen as an attempt to get money by embarrassing him, even though he may be right. It will be seen that the purpose of your "demand letter" was not really to be a demand letter. Remember that there may be two sides to this dispute.

Thats why I suggested that you send your demand letter, keep it very professional (look to the educated professional world for examples), use it to guide the landlord into either returning your deposit or specifying exactly why he won't, then go to court with both your letter and his answer, and prove to the judge why you are right and the landlord is wrong. Anything else will be counter-productive for you. Most judges in America are pretty professional.

 

[CharlesDeMar]

LL:
At this point, you have an as yet unproven allegation that your landlord cheated you. It may be very true, but when you go to court, you will need to prove your case by facts, logic and evidence.

Charles:
I'm not in California. We don't frequently litigate here over $200 security deposits. It's not going to court until the landlord's behavior sinks to the point that I know that he'll have to pay the court costs.




LL:
Extending your presentation to "motivate" the landlord to send back your deposit without logic and proof is very likely to be seen as an attempt to get money by embarrassing him, even though he may be right. It will be seen that the purpose of your "demand letter" was not really to be a demand letter. Remember that there may be two sides to this dispute.

Charles:
The logic is that the landlord is holding money that I'm entitled to. The proof is that he has no receipt or canceled check to show that he has returned my deposit. I, on the other hand, have 1) a right to my money, 2) a copy of my lease, and 3) a canceled $200 check written to my landlord with "Security Deposit" on the memo line.



LL:
Thats why I suggested that you send your demand letter, keep it very professional (look to the educated professional world for examples), use it to guide the landlord into either returning your deposit or specifying exactly why he won't, then go to court with both your letter and his answer, and prove to the judge why you are right and the landlord is wrong. Anything else will be counter-productive for you. Most judges in America are pretty professional.

Charles:
I still don't know what you mean by "professional." The dictionaries in Kentucky say that "professional" means, essentially, that a person gets paid to perform some act. I don't know how to make my letter look like I'm being paid to write it, nor can I fathom why I'd want to. As far as judges go, yes, they do receive a modest salary in Kentucky. Maybe the West Coast dictionaries are different.

I suppose I need to clarify my question: What state-government agencies typically handle consumer-level landlard-tenant problems? LL either doesn't know, or won't say. If anyone has something relevant to say, I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

 

[LL]

Originally posted by CharlesDeMar
LL:
At this point, you have an as yet unproven allegation that your landlord cheated you. It may be very true, but when you go to court, you will need to prove your case by facts, logic and evidence.

Charles:
I'm not in California. We don't frequently litigate here over $200 security deposits. It's not going to court until the landlord's behavior sinks to the point that I know that he'll have to pay the court costs.

LL:
We don't frequently have $200 security deposits anymore in California, but small claims courts are generally set up to handle $200 disputes. If your position is correct and provable, then you would be entitled to court costs.




Extending your presentation to "motivate" the landlord to send back your deposit without logic and proof is very likely to be seen as an attempt to get money by embarrassing him, even though he may be right. It will be seen that the purpose of your "demand letter" was not really to be a demand letter. Remember that there may be two sides to this dispute.

Charles:
The logic is that the landlord is holding money that I'm entitled to. The proof is that he has no receipt or canceled check to show that he has returned my deposit. I, on the other hand, have 1) a right to my money, 2) a copy of my lease, and 3) a canceled $200 check written to my landlord with "Security Deposit" on the memo line.

LL:
You are right, but you have to present that logic to someone with authority to order the landlord to return the money. I can't think of anyone, public agency, elected official, politician, or media, who would have that authority, except a judge.




Thats why I suggested that you send your demand letter, keep it very professional (look to the educated professional world for examples), use it to guide the landlord into either returning your deposit or specifying exactly why he won't, then go to court with both your letter and his answer, and prove to the judge why you are right and the landlord is wrong. Anything else will be counter-productive for you. Most judges in America are pretty professional.

Charles:
I still don't know what you mean by "professional." The dictionaries in Kentucky say that "professional" means, essentially, that a person gets paid to perform some act. I don't know how to make my letter look like I'm being paid to write it, nor can I fathom why I'd want to. As far as judges go, yes, they do receive a modest salary in Kentucky. Maybe the West Coast dictionaries are different.

LL:
The Merriam Webster online dictionary says,
"(1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or
ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike
manner in the workplace."

I don't think the dictionaries are different in Kentucky. Also, I would bet that the judges in Kentucky are just as professional as they are in California. Judges everywhere complain about their salaries.


I suppose I need to clarify my question: What state-government agencies typically handle consumer-level landlard-tenant problems? LL either doesn't know, or won't say. If anyone has something relevant to say, I'd be grateful for your thoughts. [/QUOTE]


LL:
Good luck in finding a state government agency to "handle" your consumer-level landlord-tenant problem. I suppose that what you want is for some agency to step in and get the money back for you, rather than their just reading the copy of the demand letter you are sending to the landlord, and perhaps tallying some statistics about it. Try your state department of consumer affairs. Here in California, they will furnish you with some information about conditions under which security deposits are supposed to be returned, plus maybe some information about small claims court. They won't take sides, and they don't have authority to order the landlord to give money back. Hopefully, you may find a agency in Kentucky that will do more for you. Any such agency will, of course, get the other side's story too, before making any orders. You might think about which way might be quicker for you, the agency or small claims court. Usually, small claims courts everywhere will get you a hearing in 30 days or less.

If you don't find my comments relevant, feel free to disregard them. I thought they were pretty good.

 

[CharlesDeMar]

LL:
We don't frequently have $200 security deposits anymore in California, but small claims courts are generally set up to handle $200 disputes. If your position is correct and provable, then you would be entitled to court costs.

Charles:
You probably don't have the competition among landlords for tenants that exists in Louisville either. No one in this town gets a full month's rent for a deposit. They do in some of the smaller towns in Kentucky, just not here. It's a quirk in the market.





LL:
The Merriam Webster online dictionary says,
"(1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or
ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike
manner in the workplace."

Charles:
Okay, fine. By your rationale, my letter should be "characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession." What profession do you suggeset? I myself have no profession, and it seems like a lot of trouble to get one just so I can write a "professional" letter.

Or, alternatively, you're indicating that my letter should "exibit[] a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace." As I'm ignorant of the ways of animating the inanimate, perhaps you can explain how I'm to get the letter to carry on in this manner in its workplace (assuming, of course, that it can find a job).




LL:
Good luck in finding a state government agency to "handle" your consumer-level landlord-tenant problem. I suppose that what you want is for some agency to step in and get the money back for you, rather than their just reading the copy of the demand letter you are sending to the landlord, and perhaps tallying some statistics about it. Try your state department of consumer affairs. Here in California, they will furnish you with some information about conditions under which security deposits are supposed to be returned, plus maybe some information about small claims court. They won't take sides, and they don't have authority to order the landlord to give money back. Hopefully, you may find a agency in Kentucky that will do more for you. Any such agency will, of course, get the other side's story too, before making any orders. You might think about which way might be quicker for you, the agency or small claims court. Usually, small claims courts everywhere will get you a hearing in 30 days or less.

If you don't find my comments relevant, feel free to disregard them. I thought they were pretty good.

Charles:
Please pay attention: I'm not looking for "a state government agency to 'handle' [my] consumer-level landlord-tenant problem." I asked "[w]hat state-government agencies *typically* handle consumer-level landlard-tenant problems." I want those agencies on the CC list of my letter to motivate the landlord. I think that if you'll read through the posts again (and really try to concentrate this time), you'll agree that I've made this quite clear. You may also find that your last post contains more irrelevancies.