LL won't take keys on move out

[Calif_guy]

What is the name of your state? California

This is a very long story and I won't get into everything. We had a 1 year lease, good until April 30th, 2008. We were served a 30 day "pay or quit" but the paper was for a 30 day notice to end residency. We paid what the LL asked us to pay which was a late garbage bill and a late fee for rent. We recieved a letter saying "thank you for paying, however, this doesn't disolve the 30 day pay or quit"

The move out date on the 30 day was set for Nov 13th. We cleaned the place, had our pre-move out walk through. We cleaned what was listed and had a final walk through. The LL said everything looked great. Everything was fine until we asked the LL to sign a paper saying we returned the keys to him on the 10th.

He said, he wouldn't sign it because it was dated for the 10th. The 30 day said the move out date was the 13th and the rent would be prorated until then. He said he would take the keys but would not sign the paper. I told him we were keeping the keys until the 13th and nobody was allowed in the place until after the 13th. We left and went right to the police dept to see if they would take the keys. They wouldn't but advised us to mail them certified. Problem was by the time the LL could met with us, the post office was closed.

I typed up a form and had the neighbor (in our duplex) sign for the keys with the 10th's date and time. (tenant with same LL)

My question is, by turning the keys over to the LL's tenant with the 10th's date on it, does that release us from our resonsibility of residency? and would that be considered legal in court if he doesn't prorate the rent to the 10th and charges us the 3 days anyway?

Is there even such a thing as a 30 day pay or quit? The notice doesn't say 30 day pay or quit, but I have a signed letter from the LL where he called it a 30 pay or quit.

Is the eviction even legal?

I just don't understand why he wouldn't sign the paper dated the 10th......

 

[FarmerJ]

Personally I think giving the keys to a nieghbor was a mistake , you should have just gone even to a fed ex, local courier or a LARGE main regional post office and sent them with a means of delivery that would give you a confirmation OR a signature. Not sure what all transpired between you and the LL BUT I still think it was a mistake leaving the keys with some one else who is not a agent of the LL.

 

[BL]

Personally I think giving the keys to a nieghbor was a mistake , you should have just gone even to a fed ex, local courier or a LARGE main regional post office and sent them with a means of delivery that would give you a confirmation OR a signature. Not sure what all transpired between you and the LL BUT I still think it was a mistake leaving the keys with some one else who is not a agent of the LL.

I agree , the LL/management can argue he/she never received the keys by a specified move out date .

I can't follow your rental agreement , notices ,etc .

You would have had the receipt with the date you sent the keys RRR Certified mail along with a letter ( keeping a copy ) that stated on XXX date we wanted to hand you the keys to the Apt. we rented , but you refused , so we're sending them Certified mail .

 

[treese]

If the move out date per the 30 day notice was the 13th, you owe rent until the 13th.

You chose to move out prior the 13th, but remain liable for the rent for the full 30 day notice.

 

[Zigner]

If the move out date per the 30 day notice was the 13th, you owe rent until the 13th.

You chose to move out prior the 13th, but remain liable for the rent for the full 30 day notice.

Treese, that is not true in California. California allows for proration of rent. It would be different if the tenants had initiated the notice.
It really doesn't matter, as the tenants still have the keys and still have "control" of the apartment, as evidenced by their statement "I told him we were keeping the keys until the 13th and nobody was allowed in the place until after the 13th."

I would suggest that the tenants go to the LL on the 13th and hand over the keys (receiving a receipt dated the 13th)

 

[CA LL]

Zigner...not true. In CA the 30 day is still the literal 30 days and they ARE liable for that full period, regardlesss of who gives the 30 day notice. Treese was correct.

BUT there are several problems contained within this post. FIRST, there was a fixed term lease in place and it was broken..though it is extremely unclear as to how.

There is NO SUCH THING as a 30 day pay/quit and the notice received was NOT a pay/quit but a termination.

The LL should have been using a MTM rental agreement but made the mistake so many LL's do..they used a fixed term lease but then got fed up with bad tenant behavior and wanted to terminate w/o cause or with a weaker cause which is habitual late payments, etc.

But since OP decided to move anyway..they made some mistakes too. You should NEVER turn the keys in to anyone but the LL. You are responsible for them until you do so regardless of any other person / form you choose to dream up / involve.

You are responsible for the rent through the 13th AND technically if the LL had handled things probably could be held to it for the full term until re-rented but I suspect they REALLY wants OP out and were willing to forego any furture claims to rent money.

 

[Cvillecpm]

You should have given the keys on the 10th and acknowledged you owe rent until the 13th and forgotten the signing of ANYTHING...If I was your landlor with no keys on the 13th - delivered/handed to me at my office and you owed me RENT, I'd serve you a UD at the VACANT apt for the full/remainder of your rent since it most likely accelerates.

I think you have outsmarted yourself by making the "neighbor" your agent for the return of the keys to your landlord. You have no proof the keys were returned to the landlord.

 

[Calif_guy]

huh

why do landlords think they have all the power?

Yes we were late on the rent and we explained why before it was due. He came over and got a large portion of the rent. It was one day late and was ok with the LL. Yes I agree there is no excuses for rent being late but sometimes it happens. If I could write the entire story, you'd probly see he is being a jerk.

His verbal and written mistakes (and correct me if I'm wrong) make the entire thing a crazy 30 day notice in the first place.

So I'm still confused as to whether or not the move out date on the 30 day notice still requires me to pay till then even I've moved out 3 days early?

What if I had moved in 5 days after the notice was given? He'd have that much time to rent the place and I still would have to pay rent until the 13? That don't seem right... double renting.

At any rate, its done. With a phone call to him to inform him that the person in the same building has the keys, he said he knew she had them.

Actually, I talked to an eviction specialist in the area and she said you can turn them in to a person as long as they sign for them.

Why would a LL not sign for keys in the first place. Doesn't that show you that he's acting immature?

 

[FarmerJ]

you wrote >why do landlords think they have all the power?< its not about power , having rental units is a business not a charitable institution. Your LL gave you a notice, you left early, you were entitled to possession of the unit until the last day of the notice, its not likely that your LL is going to find some one else to re rent that unit lightning fast. This time of the year the greater majority of tenants who were in the market for places found one. MOST tenants dont move right before the holidays and cooler weather months. What ever else happend between the 2 of you no longer matters, you gave up the unit with out being forced into court by the LL wich is a good thing since there will not be any court records to be used as reason to deny rental applications later down the road. Any thing else said will sound even more like a lecture, Use this experiance to learn how to do things differently including reading more of the postings here in this site about LL tenant problems so you can prevent them. Best wishes.

 

[CA LL]

OP wrote: So I'm still confused as to whether or not the move out date on the 30 day notice still requires me to pay till then even I've moved out 3 days early?


How are you still confused? I wrote very clearly that YES YOU ARE responsible for full rent through the notice period in CA and that is per state law. The only exception would be if they re-rented it in the three days.

I'm sure they didn't sign your paper because you were trying to imply in it that you wouldn't be responsible for rent through the 13th but legally you are.

The rest is of no concern..as it's beyond all of that now.

 

[Calif_guy]

Hmmmm

ok so the rent is due on the 1st. The notice says we must be out by the 13th. With a lease, even though he brakes the lease, I have to pay for 13 days even if I move out in (example)one day?

That just don't seem right.

CA LL, i wasn't implying anything. The paper stated I returned the keys they gave me upon move in dated for the day I was returning them... the 10th. He wouldn't sign the paper saying I gave them to him on the 10th because he wanted the paper to say the 13th. If what you say is true, what difference would it make to him?



Don't really matter to me. I'm much happier not living in his house and thats all that really matters.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[CA LL]

Please no need to ask anymore...for the third time now YES you are fully obligated to pay rent through the end of the notice period REGARDLESS of when you actually leave unless the unit is re-rented in the period you paid for. You're lucky you are in CA..in most every other state...notices and rental obligations must end only at the end of a rental period meaning you would owe a full month's rent plus the partial.

I have no idea why the LL didn't sign but since you have been so extreme on trying to learn something that is NOT true..that you'd only owe rent through the date you gave keys through..I suspect you showed the same attitude to them even if not on purpose.

Again if you were on a fixed term lease this entire process was wrong to begin with. There is no 30 day to pay or quit. And a 30 day during a fixed term must be for cause. Too late to worry over that though. If you had been EVICTED you would only owe initially in court through the date you vacated BUT the LL could come back and get the rest of the lease until re-rented from or you..the LL actually screwed themself here so that should make you happy.

I'm sure he's just as glad to be rid of you as you are of him so it is best for all.

 

[Cvillecpm]

"....Actually, I talked to an eviction specialist in the area and she said you can turn them in to a person as long as they sign for them."

You need to verify this through an ATTORNEY. If you call a local legal aid or renter's rights group, you are getting misinformation.

You did not return the keys OR possession to your landlord and your landlord did not DESIGNATE another resident as their agent for the receipt of the keys...signing a receipt is not the issue.