Loss of Use and DOV question

[summerholt]

What is the name of your state? I am living in TN but the accident happend in FL.

Budget Rental Car accident, loss and damage covered by AMEX, no second car involved, car is not repaired. Demand from Budget as listed in the final letter from AMEX to Budget:
1. Damages $6935.01
2. Admin. Fees $150
3. Loss of Use $749.70
4. DOV $3433.59
5. Towing $355
AMEX covers 1 & 5 (total of $7290.01), needs proof for 2, doesn't cover 3 & 4.

I received letter from Budget yesterday with following listing:
1. Market Value: $17,995
2. Salvage: $2,265
3. Loss of Use, Towing, Admin same as before
Total: $16,984.7
Payment: $7,290.01
Balance due: $9,694.69
Quote the letter from Budget:"I will accept an additional $4,333.29. This offer is rescinded when the claimbalance is forwarded to a collection attorney."

I am really scared that a collection attorney will be envolved. That would ruin my credit history!

But at the same time I have so many questions. Like, why are the two quotings not the same? And why is Budget threatening to ask for more money from me than from AMEX ($16,984.7 compared with $11,623.30)? Is Budget legally allowed to do such thing at all?

When can Budget hand this case to a collection attorney?

What shall I do now? How long time do I have to negotiate? How can I negotiate?

Thanks!!!

 

[Tayla]

PLease supply:
Date of Accident
Was the insurance carrier contacted? Some insurance coverages allows for rentals cars as well.
Have you spoken to an attorney yet? If not, why?
What does your rental agreement clearly state for recovery from damages?
How about the police report? What does that proclaim? ANy faulty problems with the car during your possession? were any photos taken after the accident?

 

[summerholt]

PLease supply:
1. Date of Accident: June 21, 2004

2. Was the insurance carrier contacted? Some insurance coverages allows for rentals cars as well: No. I didn't have my own car insurance at that time.

3. Have you spoken to an attorney yet? If not, why?: Not yet. Since I have received the letter from Budget yesterday and didn't have time to react yet. And I don't know how much it costs.

4. What does your rental agreement clearly state for recovery from damages?
How about the police report? What does that proclaim?: I am sorry that I don't understand those special terms. It is a regular Budget rental agreement in the form of an eveolpe where you put the signed papers in. The terms are very general and doesn' state specific values. That makes me think whether I could argue the "Loss of Use" since Budget is asking for a month's worth rental cost but nowhere in the agreement is the "one month period" specified.

Here is a part of the rental agreement:
"If you decline LDW you may be responsible for up to the full fair market value of the car if it is damaged, vandalized or stolen during the rental. You may also be responsible for reimbursing the car rental company for the revenue lost by not being able to use the car while it is being repaired or not recovered due to theft (loss of use). "

5. ANy faulty problems with the car during your possession?: No.

6. were any photos taken after the accident?: Yes, can I poste them here? The estimation immediately after the accident for the car damage was $4000, I forgot whether it was the police or the Budget location who made that estimation.

 

[stephenk]

loss of use damage is the amount of rental Budget was not able to obtain from that car while it was out of commission. Do you know if the car was repaired or declared a total loss? the first demand indicates the car is repairable while the second has it as a total loss.

it is declared a total loss, there will be no diminished value claim. if repairable, diminished value is not a clear cut claim. some courts allow it while others don't. not sure how it would apply to a rental car.

you should hire an attorney to help sort out the mess. it is worth it.

 

[Who's Liable?]

No. I didn't have my own car insurance at that time.

Were you offered the car rental insurance coverage from Budget? If so and you declined it, you are in an even bigger mess... If you had accepted it, then you really shouldn't be having such a hard time...

 

[summerholt]

No. I didn't have my own car insurance at that time.

Were you offered the car rental insurance coverage from Budget? If so and you declined it, you are in an even bigger mess... If you had accepted it, then you really shouldn't be having such a hard time...

I was offered the Loss and Damage from Budget. However I used American Express Loss and Damage policy to cover it and declined the Budget Loss and Damage offer. It is recommended by the American Express. It is also stated in AMEX's website: https://www124.americanexpress.com/cards/benefits/carrentalinsurance.jsp
"Easy to Activate — When you are the primary renter, simply use your eligible Card to reserve and pay for an auto rental and decline the collision damage waiver (CDW) or similar option offered by the Commercial Car Rental Company."

 

[summerholt]

loss of use damage is the amount of rental Budget was not able to obtain from that car while it was out of commission. Do you know if the car was repaired or declared a total loss? the first demand indicates the car is repairable while the second has it as a total loss.

it is declared a total loss, there will be no diminished value claim. if repairable, diminished value is not a clear cut claim. some courts allow it while others don't. not sure how it would apply to a rental car.

you should hire an attorney to help sort out the mess. it is worth it.

The car was not repaired. That's where I am confused about the different demand from Budget. I haven't been able to get hold of the direct responssible person for me case from AMEX since I received the letter from Budget with the second listing. However the people from AMEX that I could get hold of told me there was no record of such a listing at AMEX, and they didn't really know what had happened with the car.

In the letter I received from Budget with the second listing of price, there is no evidence to back up their demand. The price "$4,333" is obviously still from the first listing.

Do you know what would happen once the case is handed to a collection attorney?

Also, the car was put on car aucion on Jan. 11/12 2005.
And on Jan. 27, 2005, the title was changed and lien reported. Do you know what it means?

 

[Lynx 36]

Definitely get an atty here.

I never have paid loss of use. Rental co.'s have tryed to collect but I ask them to show me some documentation that they had no other like kind cars available to rent while this car was down. I've never had them one time provide me this. And I've never paid it, and never lost a suit over it either.


In FL Budget may not collect on diminished value either here's why:


The Florida Supreme Court, in Siegle v. Progressive Consumers Insurance Co., 819 So.2d 732 (Fla. 05/23/2002) found that an automobile collision policy which provides that the insurer must repair or replace the damaged vehicle “with other of like kind and quality” does not obligate the insurer “to compensate the insured in money for any diminution in market value after the insurer completes a first-rate repair which returns the vehicle to its pre-accident level of performance, appearance, and function.”

Now this is between and insured and an insurer but the same would apply here regarding diminished value.

I don't know how AMEX does their claims but I'm confused. Is the car totalled or not? I'm trying to figure out why Budget says the car is totalled but are claiming diminished value.

 

[summerholt]

Definitely get an atty here.

I never have paid loss of use. Rental co.'s have tryed to collect but I ask them to show me some documentation that they had no other like kind cars available to rent while this car was down. I've never had them one time provide me this. And I've never paid it, and never lost a suit over it either.


In FL Budget may not collect on diminished value either here's why:


The Florida Supreme Court, in Siegle v. Progressive Consumers Insurance Co., 819 So.2d 732 (Fla. 05/23/2002) found that an automobile collision policy which provides that the insurer must repair or replace the damaged vehicle “with other of like kind and quality” does not obligate the insurer “to compensate the insured in money for any diminution in market value after the insurer completes a first-rate repair which returns the vehicle to its pre-accident level of performance, appearance, and function.”

Now this is between and insured and an insurer but the same would apply here regarding diminished value.

I don't know how AMEX does their claims but I'm confused. Is the car totalled or not? I'm trying to figure out why Budget says the car is totalled but are claiming diminished value.

Thank you! What kind of attorney shall I get and how much does it normally cost? What process can I expect?

That also is very confusing to me: Budget provided two listings. I got the VIN# and checked the record of the car. It seems that there is no record of any damage on that car. The car was put on auction on Jan. 11/12, 2005. Then the title is changed on Jan 27, 2005, with the explanation "lien reported". It doesn't seem to me that Budget has totaled the car at all. But the second listing indicates a total loss.

 

[summerholt]

Lawyer necessary?

AMEX said they will deal with any legal papers from Budget if Budget would send me any in the future. (I should send the papers to them and they will forward the papers to their legal division to be dealt with.) Is that sufficient for my case then? Or shall I still get a personal lawyer?

 

[teflon_jones]

Send Budget a CMRRR letter with the contact information for AMEX and tell them to follow up with AMEX directly since they're handling reimbursement.

 

[summerholt]

Deadline set by Budget, Lawyer now?

I emailed Budget arguing about the DOV and LOU using the arguments I received from this forum and others, and Budget emailed me back saying that if I don't pay before March 25 this case will be sent to an attorney and I need to appear in court. In that email Budget also said that AMEX is giving me bad legal advised.

What shall I do now? What kind of attorney shall I consult? How much would it cost? Thanks!

 

[teflon_jones]

Refer to my post above. You don't need to get an attorney. Budget's issue is not with you, it's with AMEX.

 

[summerholt]

Refer to my post above. You don't need to get an attorney. Budget's issue is not with you, it's with AMEX.

This is the email I just received from Budget:
"As stated before on March 25,2005 @ 5:00pm this will be sent to an Attorney...The Attorney will file suit in a Tennessee court...You will be required to show up and give testimony as to why you have not and feel you should not have to pay for our damages...The contract is between You and Budget not Amex and Budget, thus Amex will not receive any future correspondence...Amex is giving you BAD legal advice...I suggest seeking legitimate legal advice from a REAL attorney(have the attorney look over the contract, you'll see it is binding)...Budget has a SIGNED contract with YOU...You DO owe for this claim...In order to try to resolve this claim, you make Budget an offer of what you think you should have to pay. I'll take it to my manager..."

It seems that Budget will put me in front of a court if I don't pay.

The contract between me and Budget is a general car rental contract printed on an envelope. Some key paragraphs are:
"If I do not accept LDW, I will owe for all loss of damage to the car
regardless of fault whether due to theft, collision, vandalism or any other
cause. I'll pay its retail market value before unless the repair cost plus
diminution of the car's value after repair is less...I will also pay loss of use based on reasonable downtime or specified by law...".

Does such a contract realy bind me to paying LOU of one month ($700) and DOV of $3500? Is it an issue between AMEX and BUDGET? Since AMEX stated in their contract that they don't cover DOV and LOU, I am afraid that I am entirely responsible for that. Even though AMEX promises me to back me up, I am not sure what would happen now.

Since March 25 is approaching, I am very unsettled and would like to consult an attorney. Therefore the questions: What kind of attorney shall I consult (the speciality area?)? How much would that normally cost me? Thanks!

 

[Tayla]

Firstly: Budget writes in a professional manner. The email you received seems to be written by a teen-ager at best. Notwithstanding that, Budget will correspond by postal mail on a matter of this nature. I question the authenticity of the person who did respond to your concerns via email.

Tis' best that you gain the advisal of a lawyer. Rates can vary from 150$ upwards for a consultation with a lawyer. Upon reviewal of your documented correspondence ,rental agreement, and accident report, the lawyer will be able to access if your case is worthy of a legal defense.

Without reading the actual documentation in which you signed, consented too , or waived, its impossible to make a blanket statement of whether you are responsible or not for the damages.