Major problem regarding car repossession

[Rachel1001]

Ok, someone please help if possible. My grandmother is trying to file bankruptcy at this time. Around June 9th a court officer appeared and was going to repossess her car to use as personal property for a credit card for Bank One. She never owned the car free and clear and she was still making payments to Chrysler Financial.

I didn't want my grandmother to lose her car and since she was having trouble making payments, I paid the car off myself and trasferred the title to my name. I assumed I was doing a good deed and protecting her as well.

Well, the court officer reappeared today--2 days after the title was transferred to my name and said that we acted with intent of fraud. He took the car away.

Is he allowed to do this even though the car legally belongs to me and I can prove it? Did we act fraudulently? I owe no debts to any institution.

Someone please help! We are waiting to speak with an attorney, but he says the car will be auctioned within 10 days.

Thanks,

Rachel from Michigan

 

[JETX]

"Well, the court officer reappeared today--2 days after the title was transferred to my name and said that we acted with intent of fraud. He took the car away.

Is he allowed to do this even though the car legally belongs to me and I can prove it?"
*** Very likely, yes.

"Did we act fraudulently?"
*** Possibly. The problem here is that this was a non-exempt asset of your grandmothers. As such, it was apparently being seized to pay a judgment against her. When you transferred ownership from her (the debtor) to you and changed the title, a court would likely view that as a 'fraudulent conveyance'..... simply, a 'false' attempt to transfer ownership to avoid a creditor.

"Someone please help! We are waiting to speak with an attorney, but he says the car will be auctioned within 10 days."
*** The process of seizing assets to pay a judgment is allowed by statute. However, your post is not clear as to who this 'court officer' is or whether he had the authority to seize the vehicle without a courts determination that the transfer was in fact fraudulent. Get with an attorney and have him/her review ALL the facts of this matter and advise appropriately.

 

[Rachel1001]

I appreciate your speedy response. I guess I can understand why a court would see this as fraud although that is not what I intended. She has been trying to resolve payments with this company. It was my idea to pay the car off for her--although I am not sure a judge would see it so nicely.

The court officer is through Wayne, Michigan. As I stated he was there to try and take the car on June 9th, but accepted that my grandmother was trying to declare bankruptcy. He showed up around 9:00pm tonight and was very, very ticked off. He said it didn't matter if the title was in my name or not. He also said her would tesitfy against her in court for trying to defraud a creditor.

I guess the problem I have too is that there was never a lien placed on the car other than with Chrysler Financial--and I received the release of lien from them. If I was a perfect stranger, could they have even took the car?

This just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JETX]

Presumably, this 'court officer' was a deputy sheriff or some other 'official' authorized by the court to execute what was likely a 'Writ of Execution' as a result of a judgment rendered against her. If correct, then he certainly would have the right to seize the vehicle (if it was non-exempt property per the state law). The fact that you are now the registered owner would normally preclude his 'order to seize' and therefore, you could petition the court to return the vehicle.

 

[nissandave]

To my understanding, they would have to have a court ordered judgement logged against your grandmother. If she is going to file, then it needs to be done ASAP and upon advice of an attorney. Check with the court to see if there is a judgement against her. If not, you may have just been shafted. Also, even if there is a judgement, certain amounts of property is claimed as exempt, so even if the person was a court official out to exercise repossession of property to satisfy a judgement they are certain things with certain limits that they can't take. It varies from state to state. Check with a lawyer. In any case, if and when she does file bankruptcy, your act could be viewed as fraud as far as the bankruptcy goes. In any case, you need to talk to a lawyer NOW. You may want to ask your sheriff's department about if they have been notified from the courts about a repo taken place on your grandmother's property.

 

[JETX]

No big surprise, but 'pissedonDave' is wrong.... again!!

If she is going to file, then it needs to be done ASAP and upon advice of an attorney.

File 'what'??? There is NO reference in this thread to anyone filing anything!!

Also, even if there is a judgement, certain amounts of property is claimed as exempt, so even if the person was a court official out to exercise repossession of property to satisfy a judgement they are certain things with certain limits that they can't take. It varies from state to state.

Yep, and Michigan does NOT exempt a motor vehicle from judgment seizure!!

 

[Happy Trails]

I'm sorry Rachel, I'm just not buying it. You were trying to do a good deed. No you were trying to keep the car from being repossessed. I can see where a loving grandaughter was trying to be helpful. But I think you were fully aware and thought it would work. If you read "riverposie"'s thread, that was something he thought he could do legally as well. Doesn't work.

 

[nissandave]

One other thing, you need to talk to a lawyer because if it is your property now, then he may be too late to claim it. I will not pretend to be a lawyer like jetx. That is why I suggest you get to a lawyer ASAP.
Jetx is not in anyone's opinion, except his/her's a lawyer, nor does he/she seem to have a legitimate legal opinion.




Will Rogers said:
"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and those like JETX that have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves."

 

[JETX]

That is why I suggest you get to a lawyer ASAP.

And what about the other ERRORS in your post???

 

[Happy Trails]

One other thing, you need to talk to a lawyer because if it is your property now, then he may be too late."

**No, she knew they wanted to repo. it. Then she willing went down and paid it off, so she could transfer title in her name. Thinking they had outsmarted the repo. man. He told them they were acting with intent to defraud. Furthermore, the poster then asks in her post if they had "sold" it to someone else would that have made a difference.

 

[Ladynred]

Ok, my question in all this -- WHO was paid for the car, and WHO was trying to repo it ?? If there's a judgment and this wasn't just a repo, then why wouldn't paying that creditor the full amount owed on the car satisfy the whole thing ?? After all, that's ALL they want is the damn money ! If they GET that money, why would it then be fraud if they've been paid ????

I agree with JetX.. talk to a lawyer and you'd best do it before the car gets auctioned !!

 

[Rachel1001]

Thank you for all your replies.

I won't lie--I was trying to help my grandmother keep her car--not dodge the bill. Her lawyer is working on this as we speak. I fully agree that she needs to pay the bill, but the company isn't accepting any of their offers at the time.

The next day after I posted the thread, my husband and I spoke with 3 attorneys:

My grandmothers: He had the judgments from the credit card and it is indicated no where that she was not allowed to sell the car or transfer the title. He wanted us to report the car as stolen--which we are not doing.

Our attorney: Will be filing a motion of some sort to stop the auction because we (my husband and I) do not owe money to this judgment. There is a bunch of other legal stuff that I may not understand. (I am a teacher, not a lawyer )

The credit card attorney: He actually acknowledges that the court officer should not have repossessed the car once it was in mine and my husband's name.

When all is said and done I really did not know about any laws that I broke. I am an intelligent person and I really thought that once the title was in my name, then they could not take the car.

I was outsmarted. But, now I am thinking I was outsmarted illegally.

I also do think that my grandmother should pay her bill--and she will. But that situation is taking longer than we expected, so I did the next best thing. I see now that I should have spoke with an attorney beforehand.

Thanks again!

Any more replies would be great!

 

[Ladynred]

Ok, I see that I mis-read or maybe glazed over the part about the seizure coming from a judgment from another creditor - sorry.

Unfortunately, it looks like MI doesn't allow an exemption for a vehicle - which stinks.

Can your grandmother make any kind of settlement offer or payment offer to get the judgment satisifed ?

 

[Rachel1001]

She is trying to work payments out with the creditor that she knows.

What I am worried about more now though, is someone going to go after her for this supposed "fraud". I found this website for fraudulent transfers. After looking at the information, I guess I could understand why a court officer would see it that way.

But, my point is that my grandmother is 81 years old, stuggling to pay her bills and doing the best she can. I am not asking for a pity party from anyone, but she had no idea what she did had anything illegal about it--if that is what it comes down to.

Why would she? She had paid her bills up until this time and had never broke the law in her life--nor have I. The truth is we didn't know the legalities about this whole thing. Now she may be in more trouble if they accuse her of fraud.

Like I said, I guess I should have spoke with a lawyer beforehand. I just want the car back and for her bankruptcy to get done, so she doesn't need to worry anymore.

 

[JETX]

"Like I said, I guess I should have spoke with a lawyer beforehand. I just want the car back and for her bankruptcy to get done, so she doesn't need to worry anymore."
*** I know its too late now, but in the future, you might consider using the money to pay her creditor (trying to enforce the judgment) than to use it to pay the car. You wouldn't be in this concern at all.