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Major store/unwarranted tresspass!!!

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F

FloridaMom

Guest
This story is lengthy and complicated so I will try to shorten! 4 months ago I was in a major dept. store chain and I noticed a woman following another woman and child around peeking through racks of clothes, ducking et... After observing this and being a concerned citizen I told the follower I noticed her watching/following the woman and child and I wanted to know if she had harmful intentions? The follower then ignored me and gave me a dirty look and continued following. I told her I was scared for the child and I needed to know why she was following her because I was going to call store security. I honestly thought the follower was going to JUMP this person. She then told me she was security and get the hell away from her. I apologized and said that was all I needed to know, but she did not need to curse at me. She continued to be rude and I went to management and told them and they said they would talk to her regarding her behavior.
4 months later I am in this store and again I see this plain clothed security person sneeking and peeking. I swear to god I did not intend for her to hear me, but I said to myself "There she is again being discreet!" I swear she has bionic hearing because she turned around and immediately said "Excuse Me?" I then said "Excuse Me??" She asked if I had a problem and I said no! She then said she could have me thrown out of the store for harrasment! I said what harrasment? I have not done anything that is considered harrasment. She said I blew her cover by talking to her. I said I did not talk to you, you overheard me say something and you talked to me, also there was not a single person around us to notice that I BLEW HER COVER! She said again I can get you trespassed against. I said but I have not done anything to you! She then got on her phone called the police. I then said while you are at it call the manager of the store so I can have my side heard. I also asked her NOT TO GET THE POLICE INVOLVED BECAUSE I HAD MY 3 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WITH ME AND IT MIGHT SCARE HER! I said lets just go talk to the manager because I have done nothing to deserve this! She told me "oh well" She then asked another co-worker to walk with us up front because she remembers me from before (4months ago) and I liked to tell lies. NO ONE FROM MANAGEMENT WOULD SPEAK TO ME, and I was give a tresspass to NEVER come to store or parking lot or I will be arrested. Never once did I raise my voice, threaten, cause a seen or anything because I am a mother of 2 and I would never hurt anyone. I was brought up front with my daughter in the cart and I quietly was crying and trying to get someone to hear me out. This was a personal vendetta from my possibly getting her into trouble. The police officer screamed at me and threatened to cuff me and take me to jail because as I was weeping I kept saying I cannot believe this is happening and I looked at the girl (follower) and in disbelief I asked her how could she sleep at night? I was totally humiliated and was powerless all because I whispered too loud something that was fresh, but Never should it have EVER UNFOLDED LIKE THAT, AND IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTER!
OK- so I was not so short but the store said the next day that they stand behind their worker and I am never allowed back! I do not want to go back but I was never allowed to talk to anyone in that store. It was her word and the customer did not matter. Is this LEGAL??? It was so uncalled for to go to such extreme with the police and being called a liar, and being told I caused a disturbance when no one was around us and neither one of us got loud. I am devastated that such a popular store IGNORED me when I tried to get the manager to talk to me. Is there anything I can do legal wise. I am not a money hungry person I just do not want this to happen to anyone else! I should have had some rights!!! RIGHT????
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FloridaMom:
This story is lengthy and complicated so I will try to shorten! 4 months ago I was in a major dept. store chain and I noticed a woman following another woman and child around peeking through racks of clothes, ducking et... After observing this and being a concerned citizen I told the follower I noticed her watching/following the woman and child and I wanted to know if she had harmful intentions? The follower then ignored me and gave me a dirty look and continued following. I told her I was scared for the child and I needed to know why she was following her because I was going to call store security. I honestly thought the follower was going to JUMP this person. She then told me she was security and get the hell away from her. I apologized and said that was all I needed to know, but she did not need to curse at me. She continued to be rude and I went to management and told them and they said they would talk to her regarding her behavior.
4 months later I am in this store and again I see this plain clothed security person sneeking and peeking. I swear to god I did not intend for her to hear me, but I said to myself "There she is again being discreet!" I swear she has bionic hearing because she turned around and immediately said "Excuse Me?" I then said "Excuse Me??" She asked if I had a problem and I said no! She then said she could have me thrown out of the store for harrasment! I said what harrasment? I have not done anything that is considered harrasment. She said I blew her cover by talking to her. I said I did not talk to you, you overheard me say something and you talked to me, also there was not a single person around us to notice that I BLEW HER COVER! She said again I can get you trespassed against. I said but I have not done anything to you! She then got on her phone called the police. I then said while you are at it call the manager of the store so I can have my side heard. I also asked her NOT TO GET THE POLICE INVOLVED BECAUSE I HAD MY 3 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WITH ME AND IT MIGHT SCARE HER! I said lets just go talk to the manager because I have done nothing to deserve this! She told me "oh well" She then asked another co-worker to walk with us up front because she remembers me from before (4months ago) and I liked to tell lies. NO ONE FROM MANAGEMENT WOULD SPEAK TO ME, and I was give a tresspass to NEVER come to store or parking lot or I will be arrested. Never once did I raise my voice, threaten, cause a seen or anything because I am a mother of 2 and I would never hurt anyone. I was brought up front with my daughter in the cart and I quietly was crying and trying to get someone to hear me out. This was a personal vendetta from my possibly getting her into trouble. The police officer screamed at me and threatened to cuff me and take me to jail because as I was weeping I kept saying I cannot believe this is happening and I looked at the girl (follower) and in disbelief I asked her how could she sleep at night? I was totally humiliated and was powerless all because I whispered too loud something that was fresh, but Never should it have EVER UNFOLDED LIKE THAT, AND IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTER!
OK- so I was not so short but the store said the next day that they stand behind their worker and I am never allowed back! I do not want to go back but I was never allowed to talk to anyone in that store. It was her word and the customer did not matter. Is this LEGAL??? It was so uncalled for to go to such extreme with the police and being called a liar, and being told I caused a disturbance when no one was around us and neither one of us got loud. I am devastated that such a popular store IGNORED me when I tried to get the manager to talk to me. Is there anything I can do legal wise. I am not a money hungry person I just do not want this to happen to anyone else! I should have had some rights!!! RIGHT????
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My response:

It's not a matter of "legal" or "illegal". The fact of the matter is you were an invited guest of someone else's property, and your invitation has been permanently rescinded. You could do the same thing to someone trying to enter your own home. Anyone has a right to ban someone else from their property. If the store said to you, "We do not like redheaded women in our stores, so you're banned" that's perfectly alright. The store is not a public arena for political or other free speech. They have a right to curtail or set rules for customer conduct, or looks, or for no reason at all. It's their store.

However, there's U.S. Supreme Court law that allows you to carry a placard or other sign and marching on the sidewalk, back and forth across the entrance to the parking lot, and protesting. If you feel so inclined, your sign could say, something like, "This store is UNFAIR. Do not shop here!" That's you're right to do, as long as you do not step on their premises.

IAAL

------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."



[This message has been edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE (edited July 22, 2000).]
 
F

florida mom's sad!

Guest
Thank-you for responding. I was afraid that might be what I would hear. I am very upset and sad because of feeling powerless. What I can not accept is that once I walk into any store, home, restaurant, I as a consumer have no rights??? I just don't think the punishment fit the crime!! That is just an analogy because their was no crime. If I go the the newspaper with the story and they think it is worth putting in as a story, can this store sue me for anything? I am sure they could if I had them print lies, but I am being honest otherwise I would not be going so far. It just does not seem right that I and my child were put through so much for an simple statement made to myself which was overheard. I do not care about the trespass warrant because I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO THAT STORE FOR THE PRINCIPAL OF IT! The manager told me today that because I approached her I was in the wrong! I begged him to get the surveilance camera and they will see that she turned around and confronted me, I tried to let it go and not respond back, but she wanted me bad because of the prior incident. I guess all of this is pointless if I have no rights. I don't mean to sound like such a baby or dramatic but I am sad about the way the justice system works. The manager of the huge store told me today that I had no right to approach the woman in the beginning (when I thought an altercation was about to happen, and did not know about that type of security) that if I wanted to be a concerned citizen then go get a job doing that but don't do it in his store!! All of this because I care about the well-being of others. I do see how people walk right past a mugging, rape, or any crime because of fear of getting involved! I guess I learned my lesson! I will never change my heart but I will never set foot into a supercenter again, because I will always be willing to help. That was the main issue/focus with the manager today on the phone. It wasn't even about noe was it ever how they reacted. I was verbally belittled and told that they like her because of the money she saves the company by catching theives, cost per unit, it ALWAYS comes down to the almighty DOLLAR! I would still like to know if contacting the newspaper is ok? I certainly wont be in their store when I call so I guess I am free to call the newspaper from my home. Yes I am being a smart-ass, but feel horrible.
Again thank-you for the reply and not being too harsh on me. I will be studying more on the laws, because all I ever wanted to come from this is for changing something so no one else has to go through the total humiliation and having to stand there in front of hundreds of people and basically having hands tied and mouth taped. OH-yea, no more talking to myself either. That will be tough i do it all the time a house wife with 2 kids has that affect on some. Now I have the ulcers to go with the heartache and worry over being treated like pond-scum! Thanks again. Sorry for being so dramatic, but I feel very deeply. Thank God for my Apple Computer, I like staying in the house now even more. I'll shop online!!
 
F

florida mom's sad!

Guest
Thank-you for responding. I was afraid that might be what I would hear. I am very upset and sad because of feeling powerless. What I can not accept is that once I walk into any store, home, restaurant, I as a consumer have no rights??? I just don't think the punishment fit the crime!! That is just an analogy because their was no crime. If I go the the newspaper with the story and they think it is worth putting in as a story, can this store sue me for anything? I am sure they could if I had them print lies, but I am being honest otherwise I would not be going so far. It just does not seem right that I and my child were put through so much for an simple statement made to myself which was overheard. I do not care about the trespass warrant because I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO THAT STORE FOR THE PRINCIPAL OF IT! The manager told me today that because I approached her I was in the wrong! I begged him to get the surveilance camera and they will see that she turned around and confronted me, I tried to let it go and not respond back, but she wanted me bad because of the prior incident. I guess all of this is pointless if I have no rights. I don't mean to sound like such a baby or dramatic but I am sad about the way the justice system works. The manager of the huge store told me today that I had no right to approach the woman in the beginning (when I thought an altercation was about to happen, and did not know about that type of security) that if I wanted to be a concerned citizen then go get a job doing that but don't do it in his store!! All of this because I care about the well-being of others. I do see how people walk right past a mugging, rape, or any crime because of fear of getting involved! I guess I learned my lesson! I will never change my heart but I will never set foot into a supercenter again, because I will always be willing to help. That was the main issue/focus with the manager today on the phone. It wasn't even about noe was it ever how they reacted. I was verbally belittled and told that they like her because of the money she saves the company by catching theives, cost per unit, it ALWAYS comes down to the almighty DOLLAR! I would still like to know if contacting the newspaper is ok? I certainly wont be in their store when I call so I guess I am free to call the newspaper from my home. Yes I am being a smart-ass, but feel horrible.
Again thank-you for the reply and not being too harsh on me. I will be studying more on the laws, because all I ever wanted to come from this is for changing something so no one else has to go through the total humiliation and having to stand there in front of hundreds of people and basically having hands tied and mouth taped. OH-yea, no more talking to myself either. That will be tough i do it all the time a house wife with 2 kids has that affect on some. Now I have the ulcers to go with the heartache and worry over being treated like pond-scum! Thanks again. Sorry for being so dramatic, but I feel very deeply. Thank God for my Apple Computer, I like staying in the house now even more. I'll shop online!!
 
F

florida mom's sad!

Guest
Thank-you for responding. I was afraid that might be what I would hear. I am very upset and sad because of feeling powerless. What I can not accept is that once I walk into any store, home, restaurant, I as a consumer have no rights??? I just don't think the punishment fit the crime!! That is just an analogy because their was no crime. If I go the the newspaper with the story and they think it is worth putting in as a story, can this store sue me for anything? I am sure they could if I had them print lies, but I am being honest otherwise I would not be going so far. It just does not seem right that I and my child were put through so much for an simple statement made to myself which was overheard. I do not care about the trespass warrant because I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO THAT STORE FOR THE PRINCIPAL OF IT! The manager told me today that because I approached her I was in the wrong! I begged him to get the surveilance camera and they will see that she turned around and confronted me, I tried to let it go and not respond back, but she wanted me bad because of the prior incident. I guess all of this is pointless if I have no rights. I don't mean to sound like such a baby or dramatic but I am sad about the way the justice system works. The manager of the huge store told me today that I had no right to approach the woman in the beginning (when I thought an altercation was about to happen, and did not know about that type of security) that if I wanted to be a concerned citizen then go get a job doing that but don't do it in his store!! All of this because I care about the well-being of others. I do see how people walk right past a mugging, rape, or any crime because of fear of getting involved! I guess I learned my lesson! I will never change my heart but I will never set foot into a supercenter again, because I will always be willing to help. That was the main issue/focus with the manager today on the phone. It wasn't even about noe was it ever how they reacted. I was verbally belittled and told that they like her because of the money she saves the company by catching theives, cost per unit, it ALWAYS comes down to the almighty DOLLAR! I would still like to know if contacting the newspaper is ok? I certainly wont be in their store when I call so I guess I am free to call the newspaper from my home. Yes I am being a smart-ass, but feel horrible.
Again thank-you for the reply and not being too harsh on me. I will be studying more on the laws, because all I ever wanted to come from this is for changing something so no one else has to go through the total humiliation and having to stand there in front of hundreds of people and basically having hands tied and mouth taped. OH-yea, no more talking to myself either. That will be tough i do it all the time a house wife with 2 kids has that affect on some. Now I have the ulcers to go with the heartache and worry over being treated like pond-scum! Thanks again. Sorry for being so dramatic, but I feel very deeply. Thank God for my Apple Computer, I like staying in the house now even more. I'll shop online!!
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

You are being a bit overly sensitive about this matter; especially when you say:

"I am sad about the way the justice system works . . ."

The "justice system" has nothing to do with this. This is a private matter, not a legal matter, per se. It's okay if someone doesn't like you or doesn't want you around on their property. Shop someplace else.

Look, I don't mean to sound, or be disrespectful to you, but I really must say this as an observation. From the length of your post, and your reply, you just talk too much and you don't know when to stop. You take things too seriously, and as another observation, this is probably not the first time you've upset someone with your kvetching. With all due respect, it's brain engaged first, then mouth; in that order.

I tell you what. I want you to write back to me and give me some absolutely meaningless excuse why you are forever forbidding me from stepping a single foot in your home. That should give back some of your power, and make you feel better.

I hope you take this in the good spirit for which it was intended.

IAAL

------------------
By reading the “Response” to your question or comment, you agree that: The opinions expressed herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE" are designed to provide educational information only and are not intended to, nor do they, offer legal advice. Opinions expressed to you in this site are not intended to, nor does it, create an attorney-client relationship, nor does it constitute legal advice to any person reviewing such information. No electronic communication with "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE," on its own, will generate an attorney-client relationship, nor will it be considered an attorney-client privileged communication. You further agree that you will obtain your own attorney's advice and counsel for your questions responded to herein by "I AM ALWAYS LIABLE."

 
F

FL. MOM

Guest
OUCH! You never answered my question regarding the NEWSPAPER? I guess it was the distraction of my getting on your nerves.
I am happy to say that you were right on ONE thing ONLY! Yes, I am sensitive, and I will not change that because when I close my eyes at night I can say that I am a good person, not perfect, just good and kind! I would much rather be a drama queen than mean, stiff, and cold like the managers. I guess that is why they are managers, and I work for the University of FL/Dept. of Evaluation & Intervention placing handicapped children into the appropriate schools!
Yes it was embarrassing, & humiliating and scary too my child, but I did not come to this board to ask about legalities because A STORE HURT MY FEELINGS! I have since found a site that is ANTI-WallyWorld, where this kind of thing happens ALOT to consumers and even to their own workers.
ALSO the power I need I get from MYSELF, NOT FROM ANYONE ELSE! Feeling deeply doesn't mean wimpy!!! I have to tell you though your WAY wrong on my talking alot and having something like this happen to me before. You see I am EXTREMELY SHY, quiet and introverted! My personality changes when I think I need to be assertive, or I'm threatened. It is good to hear what you think about me, because I can take a little constructive criticism, but I think if you have the ability to look at yourself and re-read your advice you might see that you were a little on the harsh side! YES Its easy for me to say what I want and as much as I want hiding behind this computer. I apologize for taking up so much space! I only have 1-2 close friends because people think I am a snob because I don't talk ENOUGH! I am sure you will make your own conclusion as to my personality, but this is me and I like it.
As far as my statement about the legal system it is because of that EXACTLY! It was just OK to do that to a person and child, and I do not think it should. It is happening to alot of others with this store! I will just continue my reading at the site where their are thousands who have gone through the same thing. I would suggest you check out the site but ,since stores are a privalege to use and managers can say or do anything to consumers then the site would be boring for you. I truly hope you or yours ever get treated like my child and I did. I truly mean that. Thanks for your advice and time! Vicky
 
A

Always searching

Guest
I was going to stay out of this but I can't. I worked at the newspaper for 15 years and they wouldn't touch your story with a ten foot pole. It is the descretion of the newspaper to accept or reject stories and letters to the editor. The biggest reason is liability and the second is advertising. Do you think that for a moment that they will be concerned with your feelings when the department store even if it is just a local store spends upwards of $50,000 a year at their paper. We treated our advertisers with the white glove treatment and have kissed personally many behinds. If you were interupting a bust at their store and they feel that you are a threat to further investigations, then it is their right to ask you to leave.
 
M

mom gives up

Guest
I do not communicate very well, but granted the first time I did not know she was security, I apologized once I was told as she cursed me. Then she must have got into trouble! This time I whispered (believe whatever you will) and she remembered me and wanted to get even with me. SHE NEVER ASKED ME TO LEAVE, NO WARNINGS. I DID NOT APPROACH HER! So what if she heard my whisper! If she truly were on a bust/spying don't you think that she would have had more common sense to keep watching her theif (that was never there by the way) rather than stop and tell me cops will escourt me out! I was never from that second able to move. No other options. I WISH I WAS OFFERED TO LEAVE THE STORE! HELLO PEOPLE?? I DID NOT APPROACH HER. I was 15ft from her and nobody around.
OK about the newspaper, I do understand that. That is why I stated it as a QUESTION because I truly did not know.!
I hope when and if I am ever in danger NONE of You guys are around, because I am sure I would get no help!
I think all I needed to know has been answered, so thanks everyone! BYE
 

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