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Y-ME

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? MI


My mother passed away during a heart catherization in Sept. I do not have a death certificate because the hospital won't release the records. My sister retained the attorney because she is the personal rep. I live out of state. Don't you think her attorney should have had those records subponead by now before they had the oppurtunity to "doctor" them up. What are the steps in these types of cases. Mind you I don't have an attorney. I assumed I wouldn't need one because I'm an interested person and it is on record at probate court.
 


lealea1005

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? MI


My mother passed away during a heart catherization in Sept. I do not have a death certificate because the hospital won't release the records. My sister retained the attorney because she is the personal rep. I live out of state. Don't you think her attorney should have had those records subponead by now before they had the oppurtunity to "doctor" them up. What are the steps in these types of cases. Mind you I don't have an attorney. I assumed I wouldn't need one because I'm an interested person and it is on record at probate court.

I am sorry for your loss.
Why do you assume your mother's medical records are being held so the hospital can "doctor them up"?
There are risks with cardiac caths, and the informed consent your mother(or her legal representative) signed spelled them out.
Provide additional information, please.
 
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ellencee

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? MI


My mother passed away during a heart catherization in Sept. I do not have a death certificate because the hospital won't release the records. My sister retained the attorney because she is the personal rep. I live out of state. Don't you think her attorney should have had those records subponead by now before they had the oppurtunity to "doctor" them up. What are the steps in these types of cases. Mind you I don't have an attorney. I assumed I wouldn't need one because I'm an interested person and it is on record at probate court.
Attorneys take their own sweet time in such matters and the law allows them to do so. A request for records can be legally delayed through requirements that the 'other side' has 90 days in which to respond. On the 90th day, the 'other side' will send a letter that basically says, "what?", and 'your' lawyer will (on his/her 90th day), send back a response of, "see this request I sent you on date X? comply, please; and here's another 90 days to do so". Eventually, the records will be sent and eventually 'your' attorney will review the records.

If the records have been 'doctored', you win. There is no defense against altered records. All your side has to do is prove the records have been altered and that isn't hard to do; costly, but not hard.

Quit worrying and making trouble for yourself.

EC
 

Y-ME

Junior Member
Thanks I will try to stop worrying and to address lealea105 I'm quite sure my mother was "informed" of the procedure because she refused it days earlier. I wasn't their when she signed the consent form nor was anyone else in the family. The doctor told me he takes full responsibility for her demise. The Chief Medical Examiner found two punctures in her heart. The cardiac cath was a success but they tried to biposy the heart muscle something that was not in the plan. My mother had no history of heart problems/high blood pressure etc. Her ultrasound and EKG were normal. I didn't think they were going to proceed because she had a fever the day before and she had not been eating.
 

lealea1005

Senior Member
Thanks I will try to stop worrying and to address lealea105 I'm quite sure my mother was "informed" of the procedure because she refused it days earlier. I wasn't their when she signed the consent form nor was anyone else in the family. The doctor told me he takes full responsibility for her demise. The Chief Medical Examiner found two punctures in her heart. The cardiac cath was a success but they tried to biposy the heart muscle something that was not in the plan. My mother had no history of heart problems/high blood pressure etc. Her ultrasound and EKG were normal. I didn't think they were going to proceed because she had a fever the day before and she had not been eating.
Then I'm confused about your mother's cardiac cath. I mean, Physicians don't just arbitrarily perform cardiac caths on people without indication of heart problems. Thank goodness the surgeon is being honest with you regarding his responsibility. However, it may still be difficult to prove actual negligence.

Having said that, I defer to ellencee's excellent advice.

Again, I am sorry for your loss. Good luck to you.
 

Y-ME

Junior Member
Then I'm confused about your mother's cardiac cath. I mean, Physicians don't just arbitrarily perform cardiac caths on people without indication of heart problems. Thank goodness the surgeon is being honest with you regarding his responsibility. However, it may still be difficult to prove actual negligence.

Having said that, I defer to ellencee's excellent advice.

Again, I am sorry for your loss. Good luck to you.


That is what I thought. Her symptons weren't matching the results. Meaning even though the test came back inconclusive she still was complaining of tightness in her chest. Which I believe came from pnemonia. The two punctures don't prove negligence to you. He cut one side and sewed it up and decided to give it another go and did it again. I think it is more to the story because the Coroner's office performed the autopsy. The hospital put down cardiac arrest as the culprit.
 

moburkes

Senior Member
That is what I thought. Her symptons weren't matching the results. Meaning even though the test came back inconclusive she still was complaining of tightness in her chest. Which I believe came from pnemonia. The two punctures don't prove negligence to you. He cut one side and sewed it up and decided to give it another go and did it again. I think it is more to the story because the Coroner's office performed the autopsy. The hospital put down cardiac arrest as the culprit.
Are you a licensed medical professional who can diagnose pneumonia?:confused:
 

ellencee

Senior Member
I believe this claim has merit. I also believe the OP needs to stop speculating on the actions by the medical professionals and needs to focus on making sure the current attorney stays on top of the claim and does not let the statute of limitations expire.

EC
 

Y-ME

Junior Member
Are you a licensed medical professional who can diagnose pneumonia?:confused:
I am not a medical professional but her primacry care physcian diagnosed her w/ pnemonia weeks prior to this debacle. And I don't think speculating is taking away from the duties of the attorney. I was simply asking for feedback. You even stated ellencee that attorneys take their swwet time in the interim I didn't think it was wrong to ponder what happened to my mother. How can you make a statement like that? I think that is very insensitive. If this happened to you wouldn't you be speculating the actions of all parties invovled. Or you would just take the "medical professionals" cardiac arrest diagnosis and go on w/ your life?
 

moburkes

Senior Member
I am not a medical professional but her primacry care physcian diagnosed her w/ pnemonia weeks prior to this debacle. And I don't think speculating is taking away from the duties of the attorney. I was simply asking for feedback. You even stated ellencee that attorneys take their swwet time in the interim I didn't think it was wrong to ponder what happened to my mother. How can you make a statement like that? I think that is very insensitive. If this happened to you wouldn't you be speculating the actions of all parties invovled. Or you would just take the "medical professionals" cardiac arrest diagnosis and go on w/ your life?
You are correct. I was insensitive. I was simply trying to point out, like EC said above, that you need to work on the legal aspects, but leave the diagnosing to the people who are trained and licensed to do so.
You said that she had no history of heart problems, but she was having a heart catheter installed, which means that she clearly (in a medical professional's opinion) had heart problems.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Unless the procedure was performed due to a mistake or a miscommunication....take it easy Mo, the poster just lost his/her mother.
 

Y-ME

Junior Member
You are correct. I was insensitive. I was simply trying to point out, like EC said above, that you need to work on the legal aspects, but leave the diagnosing to the people who are trained and licensed to do so.
You said that she had no history of heart problems, but she was having a heart catheter installed, which means that she clearly (in a medical professional's opinion) had heart problems.

What legal aspects do I need to work on besides retaining an attorney? My sister is the perosnal rep. so she relays the progress to me per the attorney.My point was the pnemonia was probably the culprit of her heart problems. And the doctors should have cleared up that infection before they did anything invasvive. Therefore they were negligent leading back to my original question about the time frame of releasing her medical records. So I can obtain her death certificate. I know the statue of limitations is two-years. First of all I know I have case, their is an attorney involved and I know it is a long process. I just thought maybe someone who has experienced a similar situation could brief me on how this process works.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
What legal aspects do I need to work on besides retaining an attorney? My sister is the perosnal rep. so she relays the progress to me per the attorney.My point was the pnemonia was probably the culprit of her heart problems. And the doctors should have cleared up that infection before they did anything invasvive. Therefore they were negligent leading back to my original question about the time frame of releasing her medical records. So I can obtain her death certificate. I know the statue of limitations is two-years. First of all I know I have case, their is an attorney involved and I know it is a long process. I just thought maybe someone who has experienced a similar situation could brief me on how this process works.
OK; we're not meeting your needs. Let's see if some clarity can be accomplished.

A medmal claim must meet four elements:
1) the healthcare professional must have a duty to the patient/plaintiff. (Your claim meets this requirement.)

2) the healthcare professional must breach his/her duty to the patient/plaintiff. (Your claim appears to meet this requirement as lacerating the heart once may be a risk, but twice begs the question of risk or negligence. FYI, the risk of death due to a 'normal' heart cath is 1% and if a stent is placed, the risk of death is 5%.)

3) an act of negligence/malpractice must have occurred. (Your claim appears to have this element.)

4) the act of negligence must be the direct cause of significant damages that would not have otherwise occurred. (Your claim may or may not meet this requirement because your mother had chronic health care problems that included respiratory and cardiac problems that may have resulted in her death during this episode of illness and hospitalization.)

Pneumonia does sometimes present with chest pain or pressure-type pains in the chest. Pneumonia alone does not cause cardiovascular problems that indicate a heart cath. Findings that indicate a heart cath are EKG changes, with or without elevation of cardiac enzymes. The medical records will show the clinical findings that supported the need for a cardiac cath; you can bet on it.

What you do now is wait and wait some more. Your mother's medical records will be reviewed by more than one healthcare expert; the most important and expensive expert will be a cardiologist of the same level of training and practice as that of the cardiologist who performed the heart cath.

Even if the heart cath is determined to have been performed in a negligent manner, it will still have to proven that your mother would have survived if the heart cath had been done without any act of negligence. I hope you are understanding that even if one or more acts of negligence are proven, it is still possible for there to be no viable claim of medmal if it is proven that your mother was not going to survive, or was not likely to survive, anyway.

Make sure your attorney is pursuing under wrongful death and not solely medical malpractice as the statute of limitations is usually one year in wrongful death claims.

My best advice for you is to find something else to occupy your mind other than trying to try this case over and over in your mind. A realistic expectation of resolution to your claim is five years. Five years is a long time to have your imagination running wild, keeping your emotions from progressing and healing through the grief process.

Best wishes,
EC
 
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