Minor pregnant with kid of a 25yr old

[CdwJava]

The point being that there is no legal mandate to make the report, and, as a matter of course, it is rarely reported based solely on a doctor's visit absent other allegations of abuse, coercion, incest, etc. And, as I have seen happen, a HIPAA violation can be assessed if the report was deemed to be an inappropriate release of medical information.

Most PC 261.5 cases opened by the police come in as a result of a parent reporting it to the police, or social services or a DA's office attempting to seek compensation for child support. I personally found out more cases through the rumor mill at the local middle and high schools before any mandated reporter dimed it off, and never (that comes to mind) from a doctor with regards to PC 261.5 (absent those extenuating circumstances).

I worked Juvenile Crimes for the better part of my career and this flub in the mandated reporting law has been a consistent thorn in our sides when investigating these sorts of cases.

 

[justalayman]

If the girl was 15 at time of getting pregnant or first provable rape the class of crime goes up as does the civil $ penality options .

California has no "Romeo and Juliet" defense. Under 18 is a crime. Period. If within 3 years, it s a wobbler and most often charged as a felony. If, in an interview with police, there is an admission of certain other sexual acts, these can also be charged and are felonies. The former (PC 261.5) is NOT a registerable offense in CA, but the others can be.

As for doctors, medical professionals in CA are NOT mandated to report consensual sexual encounters if the minor is 16 or older, even if the partner is an adult. Unless there is the possibility of force or coercion, it can be a violation of HIPAA for medical offices to report these offenses. There is no law that mandates medical reporting under the scenario as laid out here. This has long been a frustrating element of the law in CA.

However! WHEN the child is born and mom seeks financial aid, you can bet that there will be an inquiry, the name sought, blood tests ordered, and the police called.

where does the law say a mandated reporter is not required to report sexual conduct (statutory rape per CPC 261.5) if the kid is over 15? The statutes involved appear quite clear it is required to be reported
I find no exemptions as stated in
Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Act [11164 - 11174.3]




Re privacy issues: from quincy’s Link:

Child Abuse reporting is one of the few exceptions to patient confidentiality. Reporters do not need the minor or parent’s consent to share the otherwise confidential information necessary to make a report. The Child Abuse Reporting Act specifically exempts reporters from any liability for breaching confidentiality if they make a good faith report of abuse.

 

[CdwJava]

If you read 11165.1 you will find the mandated reporting sections. Only 261.5(d) (for a child UNDER age 16) is consensual sexual intercourse - defined as "sexual assault" - mandated. As defined, this scenario is NOT child abuse absent some other element that might bring one of the mandated sections into play. There are other sections that might apply, but most doctors do not seem to feel a need to inquire as to the occurrence of penetration by a foreign object (even a digit) or sodomy which ARE subject to mandated reporting. Since it is NOT subject to mandatory reporting (i.e. it is not "assault" as defined in 11165.1), it can be a matter of personal medical records and subject the person or medical facility who reveals it to penalties pursuant to HIPAA. When we sought these records, we had to seek a subpoena or a search warrant as they could not generally release these without those orders.

In the scenario here, we have a child age 16 pregnant by a 25 year old. It is a violation of PC 261.5 and can be charged as a felony, but a conviction will not mandate registration as a sex offender, and reporting is not mandated under CA law. If it can be shown that the child was impregnated UNDER age 16, it's a different ball game.

Again, I dealt with this as a primary function from 1998 through 2001, and as the unit supervisor off and on for the better part of the next 14 years. I waded through the legal morass of privacy and mandated reporting, investigations and prosecution, search warrants and subpoenas, as HIPAA compliance officer, and even autopsies while dealing with offenses involving these crimes. The laws have changed periodically over the decades but have always been frustrating as their have long been holes that can be exploited by those who have the knowledge to do so.

 

[justalayman]

If you read 11165.1 you will find the mandated reporting sections. Only 261.5(d) (for a child UNDER age 16) is consensual sexual intercourse - defined as "sexual assault" - mandated. As defined, this scenario is NOT child abuse absent some other element that might bring one of the mandated sections into play. There are other sections that might apply, but most doctors do not seem to feel a need to inquire as to the occurrence of penetration by a foreign object (even a digit) or sodomy which ARE subject to mandated reporting. Since it is NOT subject to mandatory reporting (i.e. it is not "assault" as defined in 11165.1), it can be a matter of personal medical records and subject the person or medical facility who reveals it to penalties pursuant to HIPAA. When we sought these records, we had to seek a subpoena or a search warrant as they could not generally release these without those orders.

In the scenario here, we have a child age 16 pregnant by a 25 year old. It is a violation of PC 261.5 and can be charged as a felony, but a conviction will not mandate registration as a sex offender, and reporting is not mandated under CA law. If it can be shown that the child was impregnated UNDER age 16, it's a different ball game.

Again, I dealt with this as a primary function from 1998 through 2001, and as the unit supervisor off and on for the better part of the next 14 years. I waded through the legal morass of privacy and mandated reporting, investigations and prosecution, search warrants and subpoenas, as HIPAA compliance officer, and even autopsies while dealing with offenses involving these crimes. The laws have changed periodically over the decades but have always been frustrating as their have long been holes that can be exploited by those who have the knowledge to do so.

Why doesn’t pen code 647.6 allow the current situation to fall under the Act?

 

[quincy]

The medical care provider does not have to ask a pregnant 16+ year old who impregnated her and the pregnant 16+ year old does not have to tell a medical care provider the age of her partner if asked.

If there are no physical or emotional signs of sexual abuse and the pregnant 16+ year old does not disclose the age of her partner or state she was sexually abused, the doctor would violate the law (and his oath) to report the pregnancy if the 16+ year old does not consent to disclosure. It would violate doctor-patient confidentiality laws.

After the child is born, the police can become involved but it is harder to have police involvement when the pregnant 16+ year old does not point a finger at the one who impregnated her and paternity has not been established.

 

[justalayman]

The medical care provider does not have to ask a pregnant 16+ year old who impregnated her and the pregnant 16+ year old does not have to tell a medical care provider the age of her partner if asked.

If there are no physical or emotional signs of sexual abuse and the pregnant 16+ year old does not disclose the age of her partner or state they were sexually abused, the doctor would violate the law (and his oath) to report the pregnancy if the 16+ year old not consent to disclosure. It would violate doctor-patient confidentiality laws.

After the child is born, the police can become involved but it is harder to have police involvement when the pregnant 16+ year old does not point a finger at the one who impregnated her and paternity has not been established.

The section of law I asked about does not consider the age of the perpetrator

 

[quincy]

The section of law I asked about does not consider the age of the perpetrator

If the child was not "annoyed" by the interactions she had with her partner (never objected, sought out interactions) and the partner's interactions with her cannot be shown to be motivated by an abnormal or unnatural sexual interest in the child, it might be a difficult charge to support.

Here, the history between the two might be important.

Did they share other interests that first drew them together and sex was only a part of the relationship? The adult male apparently wants to marry the 16 year old.

At any rate, it will take a police complaint or a complaint to CPS to spur an investigation. If no one complains, no one investigates.

 

[HRZ]

The OP probably knows the victim well enough to figure out if the crimes began at 15 !

So what is the big moral delay in getting this crime reported to law enforcement?

 

[justalayman]

If the child was not "annoyed" by the interactions she had with her partner (never objected, sought out interactions) and the partner's interactions with her cannot be shown to be motivated by an abnormal or unnatural sexual interest in the child, it might be a difficult charge to support.

Here, the history between the two might be important.

Did they share other interests that first drew them together and sex was only a part of the relationship? The adult male apparently wants to marry the 16 year old.

At any rate, it will take a police complaint or a complaint to CPS to spur an investigation. If no one complains, no one investigates.

The. Section speaking of abnormal anything is a unique section as I read it

And it says annoyed OR molested

I haven’t found a California specific definition of molest but

647.6.

(a) (1) Every person who annoys or molests any child under 18 years of age shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.

(2) Every person who, motivated by an unnatural or abnormal sexual interest in children, engages in conduct with an adult whom he or she believes to be a child under 18 years of age, which conduct, if directed toward a child under 18 years of age, would be a violation of this section, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), by imprisonment in a county jail for up to one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

It also says annoy OR molest

I haven’t found a California specific definition but what has happened can be defined as molest in the common definition of the word:


verb (used with object)

1. to bother, interfere with, or annoy.
2. to make indecent sexual advances to.
3. to assault sexually

 

[justalayman]

And all of this is in regards to mandated reporting

 

[quincy]

If friends, family, medical professionals do not report the pregnancy (and the pregnancies of teens at one time were rarely reported and carefully hidden by shipping the teens out of state to relatives), there is not much the uninformed police can do.

 

[stealth2]

The OP probably knows the victim well enough to figure out if the crimes began at 15 !

OP probably also thinks it is just SO romantic that her friend has this older boy so very much in love with her that he's giving her a baby.

 

[justalayman]

If friends, family, medical professionals do not report the pregnancy (and the pregnancies of teens at one time were rarely reported and carefully hidden by shipping the teens out of state to relatives), there is not much the uninformed police can do.

That’s my point. What I see says the doctor must report this or be faced with criminal penalties. If California has chosen to interpret their laws such that they don’t include the issue at hand as requiring reporting, then fine but based on what I’ve presented, it could also be interpreted to fall under the mandatory reporting requirements.

I can’t make California do anything. All I can do is point to their own laws and show where I read that the law is different than they are practicing it.

So, am I wrong? As they practice their laws, yes. As I believe they can be read and applied, no


The bigger travesty is that if Carl sees the laws don’t properly include issues that the general public believes should be included, their legislature can amend the laws. It is their failure for not doing so.

 

[quincy]

That’s my point. What I see says the doctor must report this or be faced with criminal penalties. If California has chosen to interpret their laws such that they don’t include the issue at hand as requiring reporting, then fine but based on what I’ve presented, it could also be interpreted to fall under the mandatory reporting requirements.

I can’t make California do anything. All I can do is point to their own laws and show where I read that the law is different than they are practicing it.

So, am I wrong? As they practice their laws, yes. As I believe they can be read and applied, no


The bigger travesty is that if Carl sees the laws don’t properly include issues that the general public believes should be included, their legislature can amend the laws. It is their failure for not doing so.

I read the laws as saying that a doctor in the situation described here can use his clinical judgment when deciding whether to report the pregnancy of a 16+ year old - and, unless there are indications of sexual abuse (physical or through words of the teen), the doctor potentially could lose his license for making a report and violating doctor/patient confidentiality.

It is better, therefore, for someone other than a medical professional to report the pregnancy and the man said to have impregnated the teen. A friend is not a mandated reporter but nothing prevents this friend from making a report. Nothing other than perhaps a misplaced loyalty to a pregnant friend and her boyfriend.

 

[CdwJava]

The OP probably knows the victim well enough to figure out if the crimes began at 15 !

So what is the big moral delay in getting this crime reported to law enforcement?

There is no "moral delay," only a real one. Absent a mechanism to REQUIRE medical practitioners to report the pregnancy to the police, there will be no complaint. The investigation will not occur until it comes to police attention through someone else. An underage birth is almost certain to come to the attention of law enforcement eventually, just not necessarily while she is pregnant.