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modifying visitation after 10 years & child's choice

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krawstrong

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? WA, but father lives in VA

Divorced in 1998, had one child. Divided property. I got $420 per month child support, and got to claim child on my taxes. We both lived in NC.

Went to court for a visitation plan, the father received:
Every other weekend
Alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays one week with Wednesdays the next week
Father’s Day
2 weeks in the summer
Christmas odd years
Easter, Thanksgiving, and New Years on even years
And other times when reasonable

I remarried, so we moved to Charlotte, NC, 2 hours away. Continued every other weekend and other times, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then we moved again for husband’s job to Asheville, NC, about 4 hours away. Continued every other weekend and other times, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then the father moved to Alexandria, Virginia, about 6 hours away. Still kept visitation schedule, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then we moved to north of Baltimore, MD, about a couple of hours of a drive. Still kept visitation schedule, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

2003, we moved to Washington state. The child flies almost every month for a Wednesday to Sunday visit. Plus the holidays and summer vacation. We alternate months to pay.

During this time, I have worked at keeping the child on the visitation schedule, many times going above and beyond what I had to do. Example: It was father's year for Christmas, but military changed his schedule, he canceled, then they changed again, and I flew son there at the last minute, w/ last minute expenses. Another time, I flew for a death in father's family. I homeschool child and that has been the best, it has allowed him to not have his school life too upset.

Here is the problem: Child does not want to go every month to Virginia. He would like his visitation to be changed to be about every other month and he doesn’t want to spend a whole two weeks there during the summer. When he has tried to talk with his father, his father is verbally and emotionally abusive. Comments like: You don’t love us… you don’t love your family here… your mother put you up to this.... There are other emotionally draining comments that father makes to child that wear him down so he avoids talking to his father. The child doesn't want to go as often because he cannot be involved in some organized activities being gone almost a week a month... Sounds easy, but in reality, it is not easy. The child would like to be involved in some sports and is feeling lacking in that area. I do have him involved in swimming, because you can make up missed lessons.

How do we proceed? How much would this all be? Father is in the Army, so I can’t just yank him to court. We live in WA state, so it will all be expensive. I am pretty sure father doesn’t want to go to court. If I were to say how I thought it might go down, it would be something like:

Attorney writes letter on behalf of child to father... stating that he wants his visitation revised, also offering to go to court if father chooses. Either father agrees to agree out of court, or he then initiates court. But then, that also means that the child, who will be 13 in August, will have to go to court. But child is a minor, so I don’t know how it goes.

The child doesn't want to go to VA for several reasons: 1) He doesn't spend any quality time with father, step mother won't allow it -- and his siblings are a lot younger there. 2) They berate our family. 3) When he goes now, he spends a lot of time alone because siblings are in school, friends over there are in school, father is at work, and he tries to stay out of the step mother's way. 4) Father doesn't believe that son has allergies, so doesn't allow him to take over the counter allergy medicine????? 5) Father doesn't believe that son can get a headache from being hungry, so doesn't allow him to eat...
 


Silverplum

Senior Member
Children don't choose.
As CP, it is your JOB and your DUTY to facilitate the relationship with Dad. That means, in part, do not allow your child to think he can choose whether or not he follows the court order. Because if he doesn't, it's YOUR butt. You must make the child understand, and if you fail to do that, you must make him go anyway.

All the rest of it is extraneous info.
What is the name of your state? WA, but father lives in VA

Divorced in 1998, had one child. Divided property. I got $420 per month child support, and got to claim child on my taxes. We both lived in NC.

Went to court for a visitation plan, the father received:
Every other weekend
Alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays one week with Wednesdays the next week
Father’s Day
2 weeks in the summer
Christmas odd years
Easter, Thanksgiving, and New Years on even years
And other times when reasonable

I remarried, so we moved to Charlotte, NC, 2 hours away. Continued every other weekend and other times, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then we moved again for husband’s job to Asheville, NC, about 4 hours away. Continued every other weekend and other times, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then the father moved to Alexandria, Virginia, about 6 hours away. Still kept visitation schedule, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

Then we moved to north of Baltimore, MD, about a couple of hours of a drive. Still kept visitation schedule, eliminated alternating Tuesdays & Thursdays with Wednesdays.

2003, we moved to Washington state. The child flies almost every month for a Wednesday to Sunday visit. Plus the holidays and summer vacation. We alternate months to pay.

During this time, I have worked at keeping the child on the visitation schedule, many times going above and beyond what I had to do. Example: It was father's year for Christmas, but military changed his schedule, he canceled, then they changed again, and I flew son there at the last minute, w/ last minute expenses. Another time, I flew for a death in father's family. I homeschool child and that has been the best, it has allowed him to not have his school life too upset.

Here is the problem: Child does not want to go every month to Virginia. He would like his visitation to be changed to be about every other month and he doesn’t want to spend a whole two weeks there during the summer. When he has tried to talk with his father, his father is verbally and emotionally abusive. Comments like: You don’t love us… you don’t love your family here… your mother put you up to this.... There are other emotionally draining comments that father makes to child that wear him down so he avoids talking to his father. The child doesn't want to go as often because he cannot be involved in some organized activities being gone almost a week a month... Sounds easy, but in reality, it is not easy. The child would like to be involved in some sports and is feeling lacking in that area. I do have him involved in swimming, because you can make up missed lessons.

How do we proceed? How much would this all be? Father is in the Army, so I can’t just yank him to court. We live in WA state, so it will all be expensive. I am pretty sure father doesn’t want to go to court. If I were to say how I thought it might go down, it would be something like:

Attorney writes letter on behalf of child to father... stating that he wants his visitation revised, also offering to go to court if father chooses. Either father agrees to agree out of court, or he then initiates court. But then, that also means that the child, who will be 13 in August, will have to go to court. But child is a minor, so I don’t know how it goes.

The child doesn't want to go to VA for several reasons: 1) He doesn't spend any quality time with father, step mother won't allow it -- and his siblings are a lot younger there. 2) They berate our family. 3) When he goes now, he spends a lot of time alone because siblings are in school, friends over there are in school, father is at work, and he tries to stay out of the step mother's way. 4) Father doesn't believe that son has allergies, so doesn't allow him to take over the counter allergy medicine????? 5) Father doesn't believe that son can get a headache from being hungry, so doesn't allow him to eat...
 

krawstrong

Junior Member
just a comment...

I do make him go, I do encourage a good relationship. I have a strict household, no egalitarian parenting here. I have tried to talk to the father, and he refuses.

The big buttttt... A couple of days before he goes, he is angry, then when he gets back he is so angry. Very disruptive to our household.

At what point do I say that this is not okay for my son to go through? He hates when they say negative things about our family. He hates that his father spends all of his free time in the garage... but his step mother says he cannot go in there because it is unfair to the other kids. He hates that he cannot be in a lot of organized activities because of the amount of time he is gone...

When do I say enough, is 10 years of going back and forth not enough? He tells EVERYONE that he doesn't want to go there... So I get comments from other people, "How come your son has to go when he clearly doesn't want to go?"

Is it not his father's responsibility to develop a good relationship? I'm not trying to end the relationship, just trying to help my son through a very unpleasant experience.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
The point at which you say it's enough is when you are ready to face court sanctions for disobeying a court order.

This is a REALLY COMMON question. Please do some reading to find out how others handle it. You can also find out that I'm not swinging in the wind, here: this IS how CPs must deal. (Unless there is proven abuse, blahblah legal stuff.)

I do make him go, I do encourage a good relationship. I have a strict household, no egalitarian parenting here. I have tried to talk to the father, and he refuses.

The big buttttt... A couple of days before he goes, he is angry, then when he gets back he is so angry. Very disruptive to our household.

At what point do I say that this is not okay for my son to go through? He hates when they say negative things about our family. He hates that his father spends all of his free time in the garage... but his step mother says he cannot go in there because it is unfair to the other kids. He hates that he cannot be in a lot of organized activities because of the amount of time he is gone...

When do I say enough, is 10 years of going back and forth not enough? He tells EVERYONE that he doesn't want to go there... So I get comments from other people, "How come your son has to go when he clearly doesn't want to go?"

Is it not his father's responsibility to develop a good relationship? I'm not trying to end the relationship, just trying to help my son through a very unpleasant experience.
 
I do make him go, I do encourage a good relationship. I have a strict household, no egalitarian parenting here. I have tried to talk to the father, and he refuses.

The big buttttt... A couple of days before he goes, he is angry, then when he gets back he is so angry. Very disruptive to our household.

At what point do I say that this is not okay for my son to go through? He hates when they say negative things about our family. He hates that his father spends all of his free time in the garage... but his step mother says he cannot go in there because it is unfair to the other kids. He hates that he cannot be in a lot of organized activities because of the amount of time he is gone...

When do I say enough, is 10 years of going back and forth not enough? He tells EVERYONE that he doesn't want to go there... So I get comments from other people, "How come your son has to go when he clearly doesn't want to go?"

Is it not his father's responsibility to develop a good relationship? I'm not trying to end the relationship, just trying to help my son through a very unpleasant experience.
Ok....what I am about to say may sound mean. Just take it as advice, please.

Your child is playing you and his father. I was this child 15 years ago. My parents allowed me to decide to do what I wanted to do. The end result was awful for everyone involved. It destroyed my relationship with my father. It destroyed my relationship with my younger brother. It destroyed my relationship with my mother.
A child should never be allowed to make these choices. They do not have the mental and emotional capabilities to handle it.
It is hard to force children to do anything they do not want to, I know that. But just look at it as making him eat his green vegetables. Even if he doesn't like it, it is healthy for him.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I do make him go, I do encourage a good relationship. I have a strict household, no egalitarian parenting here. I have tried to talk to the father, and he refuses.
****************************...
I'm not trying to end the relationship, just trying to help my son through a very unpleasant experience.
HOW does cutting his ties with his DAD "help" your son?

All it does is baby him. Give the baby his way, wah wah wah. :(

Craptastic "parenting theory," there...of course, the word "theory" implies "thought," and I see no "thought" in this doofus plan. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

krawstrong

Junior Member
another comment...

First, I should say... I am not changing anything unless I either get his father's okay or a court order... I am just beginning to explore this situation and its future ramifications.

Next... I also was that child. I was forced to go to visit my father. To this day, I resent that whole situation. The ex-husband... He was also forced to visit his father, and their relationship is no better for it either.

Also, I'm not eliminating visitation, I'm modifying it. Are you saying that no matter what, the frequent visiting with the father is the best? NO MATTER what, just short of abuse? NO MATTER how disruptive to the child?

When does protecting my child come into play? Am I not sending mixed messages to him? That I will protect him at all costs, except for going to his father's house?

Do I take him to a counselor now, someone who is not emotionally involved?

You all are making these comments, but they are with no true direction. Just blanket statements. Surely, every situation is not the same, maybe similar, but not the same.

I AM going about this appropriately... I'm investigating options and plans and considering the future.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
READ and LEARN.

First, I should say... I am not changing anything unless I either get his father's okay or a court order... I am just beginning to explore this situation and its future ramifications.

Next... I also was that child. I was forced to go to visit my father. To this day, I resent that whole situation. The ex-husband... He was also forced to visit his father, and their relationship is no better for it either.

Also, I'm not eliminating visitation, I'm modifying it. Are you saying that no matter what, the frequent visiting with the father is the best? NO MATTER what, just short of abuse? NO MATTER how disruptive to the child?

When does protecting my child come into play? Am I not sending mixed messages to him? That I will protect him at all costs, except for going to his father's house?

Do I take him to a counselor now, someone who is not emotionally involved?

You all are making these comments, but they are with no true direction. Just blanket statements. Surely, every situation is not the same, maybe similar, but not the same.

I AM going about this appropriately... I'm investigating options and plans and considering the future.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
I'm not sure what you mean by that comment?
You are NOT the only one.
You are NOT unique.
Parents just like you post here EVERY DAY with these SAME questions.

I am telling you to READ here, and LEARN how to deal with the problem of your son. It's a PARENTING problem. NOT a LEGAL problem.

I'm really just repeating, again, what I wrote in post #4.
 
The child doesn't want to go to VA for several reasons: 1) He doesn't spend any quality time with father, step mother won't allow it -- and his siblings are a lot younger there. 2) They berate our family. 3) When he goes now, he spends a lot of time alone because siblings are in school, friends over there are in school, father is at work, and he tries to stay out of the step mother's way. 4) Father doesn't believe that son has allergies, so doesn't allow him to take over the counter allergy medicine????? 5) Father doesn't believe that son can get a headache from being hungry, so doesn't allow him to eat...

1) Get your son some counseling. Help him learn to communicate his feelings to dad.

2) Help him think of things to do while he is alone.

3) Have a doctor write a note to dad explaining sons need for allergy meds and how he needs to be able to have a snack to avoid headaches (This is common, my brother gets severe migraines if he gets too hungry) If dad doesn't comply and you feel son really needs the meds and snacks ( I may get slammed for this) but I would let him administer them himself. He's definitely old enough to be in charge of his own medicine now. Also, send him with some healthy snacks. He's only gone for what, 5 days, fruit will last that long. Some granola bars etc...

4)As far as sports, he can still participate and he may miss one or two practices or games a month, big deal.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
]First, I should say... I am not changing anything unless I either get his father's okay or a court order... I am just beginning to explore this situation and its future ramifications.
OKay. The ramifications are your son controls the parents and learns that if he cries enough he gets spoiled.

Next... I also was that child. I was forced to go to visit my father. To this day, I resent that whole situation. The ex-husband... He was also forced to visit his father, and their relationship is no better for it either.
So have you signed your child up for counseling?

Also, I'm not eliminating visitation, I'm modifying it. Are you saying that no matter what, the frequent visiting with the father is the best? NO MATTER what, just short of abuse? NO MATTER how disruptive to the child?
Well then send him to his father for the ENTIRE summer, Christmas week and spring break (you know, when the other kids in your district have spring break). You need to help your child deal with the disruption.
When does protecting my child come into play? Am I not sending mixed messages to him? That I will protect him at all costs, except for going to his father's house?
You chose dad. You thought he was appropriate. WORK IT OUT.
Do I take him to a counselor now, someone who is not emotionally involved?
A good parent would not be asking that question. They would be DOING this to help their child cope. Not to set themselves up for a court case.
 
Since you and the child are in Washington State and Dad is in Virginia, do you think you could maybe do that the father gets all summer?? I know the child doesn't want to go see his father, but, in reality, it's really not his choice. Going for the summer may allow more time for him to spend quality time with his father. It will be more of a routine. It will cut down on so many flights across the country, which can add up on the child. Maybe the child is just burdened by the fact of the time difference and having to get used to it every month. That could be tough on him. I'm just taking some guesses at what it could be. And, offer his father every other holiday, on an extended weekend basis.

Two weeks out of the summer for long distance isn't really all that much. Plus, if the father does get all summer, then his friends there will be out of school.
 
First, I should say... I am not changing anything unless I either get his father's okay or a court order... I am just beginning to explore this situation and its future ramifications.

Next... I also was that child. I was forced to go to visit my father. To this day, I resent that whole situation. The ex-husband... He was also forced to visit his father, and their relationship is no better for it either.

Also, I'm not eliminating visitation, I'm modifying it. Are you saying that no matter what, the frequent visiting with the father is the best? NO MATTER what, just short of abuse? NO MATTER how disruptive to the child?

When does protecting my child come into play? Am I not sending mixed messages to him? That I will protect him at all costs, except for going to his father's house?

Do I take him to a counselor now, someone who is not emotionally involved?

You all are making these comments, but they are with no true direction. Just blanket statements. Surely, every situation is not the same, maybe similar, but not the same.

I AM going about this appropriately... I'm investigating options and plans and considering the future.
You are not getting it....this is NOT the child's choice. Is dad abusing him? He does not need to be protected from his dad. This is his father and he needs to learn how to deal with things. The other posters are absolutely right when they say it is not a legal problem, it is a parenting problem.
Think of it this way.....does everyone here like everything that we have do?? Doesn't it get into our own time?? Sometimes life stinks....but that is life. This is a perfect example of how to teach your son that sometimes life does not always work out the way we want it.
I would also recommend counseling as some of the others suggested. Kids in his age bracket do tend to start getting very "hormonal" and could use some unbiased ears to listen.
 

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