MP Off Post Authority...

[PJSTX1973]

What is the name of your state? Texas...

Today, driving home from work I got stuck behind a motorcylist in traffic. I flashed my highbeams twice, requesting he shift lanes. He didn't shift into the right lane and I crowded him a bit (tailgate) which he then proceeded to slow down, so I backed off.

The right lane opened and I passed him on the right (he was going about 80, I was going about 85) and I continued on my merry way. The highway compressed to one lane and the motorcyclist got behind me. It appeared to me as if he was writing down my license plate #. As I turned off the highway onto a residential street the motorcyclist turned with me...I see from his collar that he is a Captain in Military Police.

I am an officer as well (a Lieutanant) and am concerned as to whether this guy will run my plates and get my address/command info and have my Colonel drop down on me. I just got out of a little trouble and anything like this is the last thing I need.

And yes, my lesson is learned about speed (at least for now).

Thanks.

 

[fozzy2]

If he wants to report you to your chain-of-command he certainly can. What they do with the report is up to them. I doubt that he would try and write a citation directly, being offpost and all, but *anyone* can report a believed violation of the UCMJ. And you've probably managed a violation or two in there somewhere.

 

[madMA]

In response to peltlaws comment, as a military police officer, I need to have jurisidiction over the person, place or thing. If I can articulate that I knew that you were a military member (ie you were in uniform) and the offense was commited stateside (Federal Assimilative Crimes Act) then yes, I can report you for the offence, and you can be cited by either a Armed Forces Traffic Citation(DD Form 1408) or a Federal Magistrate Citation(DD Form 1805). Where I am currently stationed overseas, if I witness a person who I know or later know to be a military member commiting a traffic offense off base I can issue a citation(per the SOFA). Bottom line, in my uneducated opinion (I'm not, nor do I have any aspirations to be, a lawyer or an officer) there isn't really much of a defense that you have if this person chooses to report it, and SLOW DOWN.....we're losing enough of our brethern in the current war, we don't need to lose them to speed and stupidity. I responded to a traffic accident last night in which a member on a motorcycle lost a battle with a wall do to excessive speed.

 

[PJSTX1973]

Thanks....

Thanks for the guidance I received throughout...Although I can see this possibly popping up, this Captain was riding at an excessive (& illegal) rate of speed as well, so hopefully it will not.

Thanks again...

 

[madMA]

I really wouldn't bother bringing that up, think about how many times a people try to use the whole "well the other day I saw a patrol unit do this" type excuse. Those who do that, unless they were seriously wronged, are generally not given much thought. Best advice, unless you are issued an 1805, there's no fine, and if you are, oh well, lesson learned. You could always go search him out and do the officer kissy huggy thing that you seem to do so well and apologize . I think it's probably a case of your worrying about it will be worse than what actually happens Oh and Peltlaw....a Military Police Officer's jurisdiction is NOT limited to the base. If you'd like I can point you to the chapter in the MCM where I get my jurisdiction and what it is and isn't limited to.

 

[madMA]

To answer your question about MIlitary Jurisdiction, MP's general have limited jurisdiction restricted to base. If the Military wanted to conduct some investigation out in town, they coordinate with the local authorities. Now in your case, UCMJ Jurisdiction follows you everywhere. So your actions out in town can always be the subject of disiplinatary action. Now what really might happen, I would expect a call from the Maj for a one way discussion. That should be about it. If it turns into more you need to contact an attorney.

Only a lawyer could completely contradict himself in so few sentences!!!

 

[thepizzaguy]

Only a lawyer could completely contradict himself in so few sentences!!!

The UCMJ and Military police authority are two different things buddy

 

[madMA]

The question was about jurisdiction.....buddy...doesn't matter where if i've got the who, doesn't matter who if i've got the where......and my jurisdiction comes from the MCM....which includes the UCMJ....

 

[Help34Friend]

Military Police Authority vs UCMJ?

The UCMJ and Military police authority are two different things buddy

Hhhmm, interesting topic.

Though, sorry to say, I must correct you a bit, PizzaGuy. The UCMJ is what GIVES Military Police their authority. Regardless of WHERE or WHEN an active duty member commits his crime/infraction/moving violation (et al), his active status makes him SUBJECT to the UCMJ, therefore giving Military Police PLENTY of jurisdiction over that member and his actions.

In fact, and you might cringe at this--but it's true--the UCMJ charges Military Police members with its ENFORCEMENT, so, if that military cop does NOT report the active member's actions (and is seen & reported doing so) the military cop can be brought up HIMSELF on charges! Wonderful job, huh?

What "charges" you might ask? Well, for one, "failure to perform his duty as a military cop." After all, as with all active duty members, regardless of whether they are "off-duty" or "on-duty" they are active military members 24-hours per day, seven days a week, which is why any active member can be called to duty at any hour of the day or night--regardless of where he/she lives (on vs off-base).

I should know--I was an active duty military cop for eight years.

 

[thepizzaguy]

Hhhmm, interesting topic.

Though, sorry to say, I must correct you a bit, PizzaGuy. The UCMJ is what GIVES Military Police their authority. Regardless of WHERE or WHEN an active duty member commits his crime/infraction/moving violation (et al), his active status makes him SUBJECT to the UCMJ, therefore giving Military Police PLENTY of jurisdiction over that member and his actions.

In fact, and you might cringe at this--but it's true--the UCMJ charges Military Police members with its ENFORCEMENT, so, if that military cop does NOT report the active member's actions (and is seen & reported doing so) the military cop can be brought up HIMSELF on charges! Wonderful job, huh?

What "charges" you might ask? Well, for one, "failure to perform his duty as a military cop." After all, as with all active duty members, regardless of whether they are "off-duty" or "on-duty" they are active military members 24-hours per day, seven days a week, which is why any active member can be called to duty at any hour of the day or night--regardless of where he/she lives (on vs off-base).

I should know--I was an active duty military cop for eight years.

Whatever... It is standard practice for the MPs to cooperate with the civilian PDs and let them handle the problem especially one as simple as this. Ever watch "The Presidio"?

This really isn't an issue unless you have an authority complex

 

[badapple40]

The question was about jurisdiction.....buddy...doesn't matter where if i've got the who, doesn't matter who if i've got the where......and my jurisdiction comes from the MCM....which includes the UCMJ....

Yeah.... umm...

The UCMJ is the code enacted by congress. It trumps other MCM provisions. The MCM (manual for courts martial) includes UCMJ provisions, but also includes other provisions, that the President has issued (promulgated) via executive order. If a MCM provision was contrary to the UCMJ, thE UCMJ would control. Its that whole separation of powers thing.

In any event, both the UCMJ and the MCM provisions give MPs authority. And other laws do as well.

 

[Help34Friend]

Whatever... It is standard practice for the MPs to cooperate with the civilian PDs and let them handle the problem especially one as simple as this. Ever watch "The Presidio"?

This really isn't an issue unless you have an authority complex

PizzaGuy:

What makes you think a MOVIE is the authority on ANYTHING? It's FICTION. Duh.

Anyway, there is a major difference between reporting moving violations/misdemeanor infractions and investigating major crimes committed on/off base by active military personnel.

As far as MPs pursuing someone fleeing off-base after committing a homicide, for example: Regardless of the military status of the suspect, MP's DO have "hot pursuit" rights, but the MP desk sergeant contacts civilian authorities for assistance. Once the suspect is stopped and, say, the person turns out to be a civilian, then the civilian cops take over--the MP's don't have authority over civilians (only to detain them for civilian authorities).

But, an on-duty MP unit cannot pursue a misdemeanor suspect off-base. Instead, the civilian authorities are contacted.

However, when an off-duty MP SEES infractions committed by someone he/she KNOWS is active duty military, they are BOUND by their MOS (job) to report it--even if they cannot stop the person and issue a ticket at the time.

It's not about "control" as you assume. It's about covering their own butt.

 

[thepizzaguy]

PizzaGuy:

What makes you think a MOVIE is the authority on ANYTHING? It's FICTION. Duh.

Anyway, there is a major difference between reporting moving violations/misdemeanor infractions and investigating major crimes committed on/off base by active military personnel.

As far as MPs pursuing someone fleeing off-base after committing a homicide, for example: Regardless of the military status of the suspect, MP's DO have "hot pursuit" rights, but the MP desk sergeant contacts civilian authorities for assistance. Once the suspect is stopped and, say, the person turns out to be a civilian, then the civilian cops take over--the MP's don't have authority over civilians (only to detain them for civilian authorities).

But, an on-duty MP unit cannot pursue a misdemeanor suspect off-base. Instead, the civilian authorities are contacted.

However, when an off-duty MP SEES infractions committed by someone he/she KNOWS is active duty military, they are BOUND by their MOS (job) to report it--even if they cannot stop the person and issue a ticket at the time.

It's not about "control" as you assume. It's about covering their own butt.

I was only using the movie as an example of Military Police acting in conjunction with civilian PDs. Your own quote confirms that it is necessary. If you like I will provide non-fictional examples.

 

[Help34Friend]

As I Stated...

I was only using the movie as an example of Military Police acting in conjunction with civilian PDs. Your own quote confirms that it is necessary. If you like I will provide non-fictional examples.

PizzaGuy, PLEASE catch on...

The topic is about misdemeanor traffic violations an active duty MP witnessed another active duty member commit while they were both off-base & off-duty.

And, as I stated in my previous post, there is a vast difference between misdemeanor and serious offenses, and how they are treated by the UCMJ.

Point is: The UCMJ is the penal code covering ALL active duty U.S. military of any branch, and the MP's--as the enforcers of the UCMJ--have the authority to perform their duties as dictated by the UCMJ.

I don't need examples. I have my own DIRECT experience as an active duty Law Enforcement journeyman in the U.S. Air Force for 8 years.

Thanks for trying, anyway.