music and lyrics copyright

[gbm]

New York

Hi
I wrote some music to a person's lyrics, in which the lyrics had already been used in a collaboration earlier, the first version song has not been published, nor copyrighted, the author of the lyrics told me, "sorry, these lyrics are no longer available, these lyrics are being used in a song already and I don't give you permission to use them." My question is, if I give her credit for the lyrics in my song, does she have the right to stop me from using her lyrics in my song? I only want to pitch the song, if the song gets recorded and money is made from the song then I would simply include her in the royalties, or can she legally stop me or anyone from recording my version simply because she owns the lyrics? I understand that I could go ahead and legally write a song called "Over Troubled Water" with music completely different than "Bridge Over Troubled Water" and use Paul Simon's lyrics verbatim and give him credit for the lyrics. Am I right?

thanks

 

[quincy]

New York

Hi
I wrote some music to a person's lyrics, in which the lyrics had already been used in a collaboration earlier, the first version song has not been published, nor copyrighted, the author of the lyrics told me, "sorry, these lyrics are no longer available, these lyrics are being used in a song already and I don't give you permission to use them." My question is, if I give her credit for the lyrics in my song, does she have the right to stop me from using her lyrics in my song? I only want to pitch the song, if the song gets recorded and money is made from the song then I would simply include her in the royalties, or can she legally stop me or anyone from recording my version simply because she owns the lyrics? I understand that I could go ahead and legally write a song called "Over Troubled Water" with music completely different than "Bridge Over Troubled Water" and use Paul Simon's lyrics verbatim and give him credit for the lyrics. Am I right?

thanks

She can stop you from using her lyrics in your song because she holds the copyrights in the lyrics, whether these lyrics have been registered with the Copyright Office or not - unless you were part of the collaboration, in which case you and the author would share not only rights to the lyrics but to the music as well, absent any agreement to the contrary.

If you are not/were not part of the collaboration of lyrics to music, not only can the lyric-creator stop you from using the lyrics, she can sue you for copyright infringement if you use them without her express permission, and you could sue her for using your music.

Copyrights are automatic once creative and original material is fixed in a tangible form (in the case of lyrics, written down or recorded). Attribution does not provide you with any rights to the lyrics (to this particular author's words or the words of Paul Simon). You are, in other words, wrong about your thoughts on rights in Paul Simon's copyrighted material.

The only way you have rights in another's copyrighted material would be through a license granted you by the copyright holder, through an agreement/contract with the copyright holder (such as a collaboration, a work for hire), or through an express transfer of rights by the copyright holder, unless the material is in the public domain (which, unless specifically placed in the public domain, would not be the case with the lyrics in your described situation).

When you want to use someone else's rights-protected material, in other words, you need to acquire permission. If you cannot obtain it, I suggest you come up with creative and original lyrics of your own.

Good luck.

 

[gbm]

Quincy

Thanks, yes I get all that but what I'm saying is, I can use her lyrics in a song and she can't legally stop me UNTIL I begin collecting royalties, in other words I can legally post a song online on a music collaboration site using her lyrics (which she objects to), openly stating that she wrote the lyrics, and she cannot stop me. Otherwise, what would the legal grounds be for suing me if no money was made from my unpublished song and I give her credit for the lyrics? I do not believe that a lyric is automatically copyrighted as soon as it is written, that's not factual, nor legal, otherwise why have a copyright office? I could legally go ahead and copyright her lyrics before she does and the lyrics would legally be mine! That's how it is. Who can stop me? No one!

Anyway, I will go ahead and use her lyrics and I am not the least bit concerned of any consequences since I am making no money on this song, once I begin making money on her lyrics and she disapproves, then she can come after me. What would be her recourse/reason to sue me anytime sooner? We are both unprofessional songwriters and have no money at stake in this song.

Thanks

 

[FlyingRon]

You are incorrect. You can't use them period without permission. Royalties has squat to do with it. There's no compulsory license on unrecorded lyrics. She can sue you and claim damages whether YOU profit on it or not.

 

[gbm]

You are incorrect. You can't use them period without permission. Royalties has squat to do with it. There's no compulsory license on unrecorded lyrics. She can sue you and claim damages whether YOU profit on it or not.

OK I see, damages is the legal basis. Provided she legally proves that she owns the copyright. Simply posting lyrics in a music collaboration forum online is not copyrighting them it is displaying them as public domain. I know I'm right about this.

thanks

 

[FlyingRon]

OK I see, damages is the legal basis. Provided she legally proves that she owns the copyright. Simply posting lyrics in a music collaboration forum online is not copyrighting them it is displaying them as public domain. I know I'm right about this.

thanks

Again you are wrong. If she WROTE them and expressed them in a tangible form (wrote them down on paper, posted them on the internet, made a recording of her own, or anything else) she DOES have copyright. Posting things on the internet does not equate to placing them in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.

You can't weasel out of STEALING her work.

You can be sued. That's going to take some expense on her part.
What will not take any expense is that any use you make online all she has to do is file a DMCA complaint swearing that she is the owner (which she is) of the work and your page will got POOF.