NCP inappropriate behavior with child

[Becki C.]

state: TN

my husband has had his ex on supervised visits for about 7 yrs. the ex's mom supervises the visits. my step-daughter is in therapy and on an anti-depressant due to issues of abandonment she has with her bio mom. bio mom left when step-daughter was 10 months old. she visited the child sporadically throughout the last 5 years and more regularly through the last 2 years. my step-daughter (10 yrs. old) returned from a visit last week with these comments during a conversation we were having:

1. "momma called you and daddy b-tches over and over and said that daddy doesn't have any balls"
2. "momma said i'm in therapy because you (step-mom) are mean to me. she said that all ya'll have me thinking it's because she left when i was a baby and she hasn't been around much, but if i really think about it, my problems are all because of you"
3. "my mom and grandma said they wish you (step-mom) would die like my kitten did so they could chop of your arms and legs and bury you inthe backyard"
4. "i tripped when i got out of the bathtub. my towel i had wraqpped around me flew up and showed my privates. mom and her boyfriend and my uncle were sitting on te couch and momma said for everyoone to look at my privates because hair is starting to grow there. i cried and ran to the bedroom but momma told me to suck it up and get over it."
5. "when mom's ex-boyfriend came over to get their baby for a visit, mom started cussing at him in front of me like she always does."

needless to say, my husband and i feel the "supervised visitation" at the ex's mom's house isn't working. we want the visitation moved to an exchange club where the ncp has to pay $30 an hour to visit the child/children one hour per week. my husband has had numerous conversations with his exand her mom about their language and offensive remarks about us in the presence of the children. apparently, it doesnt matter. isn't it comon sense to say that a judge will see our grave concerns and allow us to move the visitation to a more controlled setting?

rebecca

 

[stealth2]

What proof does Dad have except what the 10 yo says?

 

[Becki C.]

in my husband's several conversations with the two of them (his ex-wife and ex-mother-in-law) when he has told them to keep their personal feelings about us to themselves, they replied with "your rules don't apply in our house", etc. he has been face to face with his ex mother-in-law in the presence of the child and the ex monther-in-law has screamed "i wish you and your new wife would die". it's happened to him too, not just my step-daughter. bascially, what i'm saying is, we do not have taped phone conversations, nor did we video tape any incidents. i would think the mom being on supervised visits would be helpful in showing she wasn't the best ncp in town from the get go. plus if we can get a letter from my step-daughter's therapist recommending this change would be good, that would help, right? the therapist already told us if the inappropriate behavior continued that she would recommend possibly suspending the visitations to a judge.

 

[frylover]

OK, I've hung out here long enough to know "the law is the law and there's no place for emotion, the judge will not care what you have to say unless there is proof...." yadda, yadda, yadda.

But this is SCARY. If this story is true, this poor kid is going to be in therapy for years.

Short of getting mom and granny on video tape acting like complete psychos, isn't there ANYTHING this man can do to protect his child?

Sometimes I really think that the rights of the egg or sperm donor are more important than the right of a child to have a normal, happy, healthy existence.

 

[stealth2]

So basically all he's got is he said/she said stuff. That's not going to get him far.

 

[Becki C.]

even with my step-daughter's therapist recommending moving the supervised visitation to a neutral location, are you saying we haven't a "legal leg" to stand on? i find it hard to believe that with the recommendation of the child's therapist that no weight would be given to the type of comments the mom and grandmother are making. and with bio mom being on supervised visits anyway, doesn't that send a red flag that she is of questionable character to start with? it's dreaming to think we could ever get any proof on tape of any kind. they're smart enough to only bad-mouth us in the presence of mainly the children. sure, random comments here and there just have to be swallowed and there's nothing we can do about every word that passes by their lips; however, i can't see not even trying to change the visitation to a different location that can be better monitored. my husband is going to try anyway. all the judge can say is "no" and if that's the decision, then we'll have to live with it. but i still think my husband should try. don't you?

 

[stealth2]

Noone can tell you what a judge may or may not rule. A lot would depend on what sort of defense Mom puts on.

 

[Reyna7]

Becky....I agree with you

I cannot believe from what you have posted that nothing can be done. Obviously there was something to begin with that a judge ordered supervised visits....seems he may of screwed up on who was the supervisor. That being said have you contacted an attorney, the one that handles your case maybe and asked what can be done? I really would get an opinion from an attorney. If your SD's therapist is recommending a change that may be enough to convience a judge, but you won't know until you try.

The scary thing here is what happens if when you bring up a change the mom asks for "unsupervised" visits and gets it. She will already have to hire an attorney to defend herself in court and could go ahead and ask for the unthinkable.

 

[Becki C.]

Reyna7:

the biomom is over $20,000.00 behind in court ordered child support, has a child out of wedlock by a guy she was never married to (which I'm told the judge will view as "questionable moral character") and lives with her disabled grandmother in a small run down home. i don't think she's a good candidate for unsupervised visits, but my opinion doesn't count....only the judge's. sure, it's crossed my mind that as long as she's there in the courtroom that she could bring up getting unsupervised visits; however, i worry more about the lasting effects her comments and actions will have on my step-daughter, if my husband does nothing, just to keep his ex from "maybe" trying to get unsupervised visits. in a nutshell, the risk is worth it to us.

we did contact our attorney late yesterday evening and she is supposed to call us back tomorrow because her secretary said she had to be in court all day today.

i am apprehensive because you never can predict what a judge will or will not do. i just hope that with the therapist's recommendation letter in hand that the judge will give a little more weight to our side than to my husband's ex.

 

[BL]

This is Part of an Affidavit concerning the Mental Health and Emotional well Being of a child in case I know Of .

The Petition was to Terminate visitation rights due to Contempt , of talking derogatorily about the Mom & family members.

There was an Order In place that NEITHER party talk derogatorily about the other Party in Front of or To the child.

There was a motion For a summary Judgment to dismiss the the Petition.

In it the defendant's Attorney claimed " hearsay allegations of third Parties can not be considered " ( the Party being the child ) about 11-12 yrs. old.

In the Affidavit by Petitioner' Attorney,
# 7. The motion shall be denied if any party shall show facts sufficient to require a trial of an issue of fact.
# 8 . I refer to the attached Affidavit ( by Petitioners name ). In said affidavit ( Petitioner) sets forth things that her son has told her regarding statements made by the respondent herein.
#9 . While the statements of a child are hearsay, since they are made by a person who has been identified, they are sufficient to create an issue of fact and defeat respondents motion for summary Judgment.

After a Few agreements and repeated Petitions of contempt Regarding talking derogatorily, this is what the court ordered.

Ordered. ( respondent's name) shall be entitled to speak with any therapist counseling with ( child's name ).

Ordered, Respondent's name) shall not be entitled to any court ordered visitations except as part of the therapy that ( child's name ) is engaged in and as agreed to by the Parties per recommendations from the therapist.

Go over this with your Lawyer, motion to the court to make similar orders.

Good Luck .

 

[Becki C.]

just an update....i spoke to our attorney and she said she feels we have a "good shot" at getting the visitations switchd to the Exchange Club for the reasons I originally posted. also, we saw my step-daugther's therapist today and she said she would write the "letter of recommendation" for my step-daughter's visitation to be rerouted to the Exchange Club as well.. we are very optimistic. thanks for everyone's help.

 

[TalulaRae]

4. "i tripped when i got out of the bathtub. my towel i had wraqpped around me flew up and showed my privates. mom and her boyfriend and my uncle were sitting on te couch and momma said for everyoone to look at my privates because hair is starting to grow there. i cried and ran to the bedroom but momma told me to suck it up and get over it."

Becky,
In addition to all that has been mentioned I wanted to comment on one thing that got my immediate attention. The dialogue between child, mother, boyfriend and uncle is very unsettling. Has this been discussed with child's therapist? I would insist that this kind of harrassment be investigated/reported. Nothing of that nature should be taken lightly at anytime by anyone when a child is involved. It's not cute, it's not funny, it's impossible to make excuses as to the meaning behind it and most importantly it is indelible on the child. I would be very clear about this when describing your concerns.

 

[tigger2two]

Yes Theropist Can Write The Judge

I will let you know more after i go to court for my custody on friday, but.....my kids are in counseling mainly bc of bruises and demeaning names their fathers parents have been calling them during the visits they get when the father doesn't take his visitation. My kids counselor contacted CPS. they investiaged and found abuse and neglect. The kids father denied this up one side and down the other reguardless of the pictures i had and the counselors letters. My attorney got the letters from the counselor in under exception to hearsay. And my pictures are going to be allowed to. So i will let you know on friday how much the judge takes them into consideration. We always has a custody evaluator on the case too which was very expensive but even he wrote up a report that the judge had ordered him to do. And it even recommends supervised visitation in a mental health facility under CPS's supervision. GOOD LUCK!! no child should have to go through any of that!

 

[Becki C.]

TalulaRae

in answer to your question, yes.......when we went to see my step-daughter's therapist yesterday, i did tell her everything i had posted in my original post and i made it a point to concentrate on the part that you found so disturbing. the therapist said she was going to highlight examples of why the ncp should have to be supervised elsewhere using my statments. my step-daughter was in the room with us and she verified for the therapist everything she had previously told me after returning from the visit with her mother.

of course, the therapist was not amused in the slightest and she said that it was very inappropriate what took place; however, she did not speak to me at all about having children's services investigate or anythng of that nature. at this time, we feel that confining the bio mom to supervised visits at an independant facility where she is monitored by the staff there will curb her behavior because she won't be alone with the child and she will not have any overnight visits, nor will she be able to just say whatever she wants without fear of consequences. if we are denied supervised visits at the facility by a judge, then we will have to pursue other avenues of restraint for the bio mother or gather more evidence to reintroduce our case to court.

tiggertwo2

please keep me informed as to the outcome you get on friday. i would be very interested to know what happens. good luck to you.

 

[tigger2two]

i will let you know. i have an original post of my own titled i think the judge in my case hates women. im planning to post the update there if you would like to check that saturday! and thanks for the good wishes i hope i dont need em but ill take them LOL!