NCP lying, sneaking and involving son

[kaizen]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

During the summer, I wrote here about dad (ncp) refusing to bring son home from visitation saying son "refused". As part of the court order after that case (in which dad was sentenced to 30 days in jail - unless son was brought home within six hours), we had to go to a court psychologist for "parental cooperation" counseling. At the end of those sessions, the doctor brought up to me the idea that dad's actions were under the umbrella of parental alienation. This is something that I've felt for a long time, but it's such a gray area that I just sucked it up.

It is my time this holiday. I took son (age 16 to the library to meet up with his friends. I just called to check in with him. He said he was "at lunch". He said he was with his dad, that dad had texted him telling him I said it was okay. I told son to save that text. I never had any such conversation. This is one of many times that dad has snuck around unbeknownst to me and met up with son during my parenting time.

It's another part of the alienation (and usurping my authority), and it's modeling lying and being sneaky. Given the impartial opinions of the court's doctor is there any way action I can legally take?

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

During the summer, I wrote here about dad (ncp) refusing to bring son home from visitation saying son "refused". As part of the court order after that case (in which dad was sentenced to 30 days in jail - unless son was brought home within six hours), we had to go to a court psychologist for "parental cooperation" counseling. At the end of those sessions, the doctor brought up to me the idea that dad's actions were under the umbrella of parental alienation. This is something that I've felt for a long time, but it's such a gray area that I just sucked it up.

It is my time this holiday. I took son (age 16 to the library to meet up with his friends. I just called to check in with him. He said he was "at lunch". He said he was with his dad, that dad had texted him telling him I said it was okay. I told son to save that text. I never had any such conversation. This is one of many times that dad has snuck around unbeknownst to me and met up with son during my parenting time.

It's another part of the alienation (and usurping my authority), and it's modeling lying and being sneaky. Given the impartial opinions of the court's doctor is there any way action I can legally take?

Hold up. Dad is absolutely free to have lunch with kiddo even if you don't like it. Until a court order says otherwise, you're both entitled to stop by for lunch with your son. A visitation/custody order defines the MINIMUM amount of time the NCP can use; not the maximum.

Saving the text is pointless. It's your word against Dad's. But honestly? Are you sure you want to push the issue?

 

[CJane]

This is one of those murky ones. While I agree with Pro that IN GENERAL, a parent could absolutely meet up with a child who is out in public somewhere and have lunch.... Dad's behavior has been SO abhorrent, and the child's behavior as well, that I think a judge MIGHT look at this as a continuing pattern of behavior.

But... and I've thought this for awhile ... your kid is SO CLOSE to grown and out, you really are up against the whole "what do you have to gain" thing. Ya know?

 

[kaizen]

I hear you both and understand. I have found my son and I a fabulous therapist. One of things she's shown me is that son (oh I hope I can explain this as she said it....) is responsible for his actions, but there has to be some kind of understanding to go along with it. She described it as if an autistic child did something wrong, you'd certainly deal with them - but you wouldn't hold them to the same level of responsibility as you would a non-autistic child. In short, she told me my son has a mental disorder and she is helping me parent him through that. Son and I have never been better together than we are now.

Therapist has also said that she thinks son will likely have to land behind bars to fully get that the rules do apply to him. This is the apple not falling far from the tree as his dad has shown him this time and again. It is for that very reason that I would like to push the issue. I'd like son to see the other side of it in action. I'd like him to see there are consequences for abhorrent behavior and it'd be a good lesson to learn from dad's actions. Maybe if he sees his dad lied and got in trouble, he can learn the lesson at dad's expense and not his own later. That's the reason I would like to push it.

When son came home we talked and he told me dad said he lied to get him to go to lunch with him because he knew I wouldn't allow it. *For the record, I used to allow all sorts of deviations from the schedule. Not since the summer. And just last week dad told me I was an ass not once, but twice within ear shot of son. In short, I want to show my son the other side of what can happen when you behave like this (instead of him just seeing all the fun parts) and that's why I asked what if any legal actions I might have available.

 

[Zigner]

I hear you both and understand. I have found my son and I a fabulous therapist. One of things she's shown me is that son (oh I hope I can explain this as she said it....) is responsible for his actions, but there has to be some kind of understanding to go along with it. She described it as if an autistic child did something wrong, you'd certainly deal with them - but you wouldn't hold them to the same level of responsibility as you would a non-autistic child. In short, she told me my son has a mental disorder and she is helping me parent him through that. Son and I have never been better together than we are now.

Therapist has also said that she thinks son will likely have to land behind bars to fully get that the rules do apply to him. This is the apple not falling far from the tree as his dad has shown him this time and again. It is for that very reason that I would like to push the issue. I'd like son to see the other side of it in action. I'd like him to see there are consequences for abhorrent behavior and it'd be a good lesson to learn from dad's actions. Maybe if he sees his dad lied and got in trouble, he can learn the lesson at dad's expense and not his own later. That's the reason I would like to push it.

When son came home we talked and he told me dad said he lied to get him to go to lunch with him because he knew I wouldn't allow it. *For the record, I used to allow all sorts of deviations from the schedule. Not since the summer. And just last week dad told me I was an ass not once, but twice within ear shot of son. In short, I want to show my son the other side of what can happen when you behave like this (instead of him just seeing all the fun parts) and that's why I asked what if any legal actions I might have available.

Why do you want to involve your son so closely in what should be adult matters?

 

[Isis1]

I hear you both and understand. I have found my son and I a fabulous therapist. One of things she's shown me is that son (oh I hope I can explain this as she said it....) is responsible for his actions, but there has to be some kind of understanding to go along with it. She described it as if an autistic child did something wrong, you'd certainly deal with them - but you wouldn't hold them to the same level of responsibility as you would a non-autistic child. In short, she told me my son has a mental disorder and she is helping me parent him through that. Son and I have never been better together than we are now.

Therapist has also said that she thinks son will likely have to land behind bars to fully get that the rules do apply to him. This is the apple not falling far from the tree as his dad has shown him this time and again. It is for that very reason that I would like to push the issue. I'd like son to see the other side of it in action. I'd like him to see there are consequences for abhorrent behavior and it'd be a good lesson to learn from dad's actions. Maybe if he sees his dad lied and got in trouble, he can learn the lesson at dad's expense and not his own later. That's the reason I would like to push it.

When son came home we talked and he told me dad said he lied to get him to go to lunch with him because he knew I wouldn't allow it. *For the record, I used to allow all sorts of deviations from the schedule. Not since the summer. And just last week dad told me I was an ass not once, but twice within ear shot of son. In short, I want to show my son the other side of what can happen when you behave like this (instead of him just seeing all the fun parts) and that's why I asked what if any legal actions I might have available.

then take the wind out of dad's sails. dad admitted to lying to kiddo. let that fact kick in. next time dad calls you and ass bellow "HEE HAW!". nothing bugs the insultor more when the insultee makes a joke out of it.

and let the kid know....even if he has to excuse himself to the bathroom to call you...just to let you know where he is going. it's pretty simple to deal with. eventually, the kid will get it.

 

[kaizen]

I just let the whole thing go last week.

This weekend is supposed to my weekend. I get the first weekend of the month. Dad gets the others (in months w/o weekend holidays). Dad wrote to the courts in 2010 asking for clarification on the months that include holidays saying he doesn't think his time "should be reduced under any circumstance". He asked them to please advise him. The written response from the court tells him clearly that holidays take precedent over regularly scheduled time and that I am allowed to take the first full weekend of the month, as well as the additional time allotted for the holiday. Basically word for word, that was the response he got.

When dad does pick son up, it's at 7pm. Son came to me at 6:30 and told me dad was on his way, that it was not my weekend - that dad is entitled to three weekends a month and since Christmas is mine this month, it's dad's weekend so he can get his three weekends. Son told me if I didn't like it I could call the police because dad is coming to get him and that's basically how it's written. I texted dad and told him not to come get son, it wasn't his weekend. I told him he'd already asked for and received written clarification of that policy. He responded by telling me it's "one of my three weekends per month".

As part of the deal this summer, it was written by the court that "Parties agree that defendant is to have first weekend of each month. Plaintiff is to have next 3 weekends." While it was not specified that holidays trump, that is a given, right?

Dad's encroaching on my time again as he did this summer by not bringing son home. Now he's come and picked him up. Do you think the judge will take into account his recent offense to which he was given 30 days in jail when I bring this new motion for contempt? Does anyone feel that it's not contempt?

Thanks.