need non parental custody order help Ohio

[OHRoadwarrior]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Fresh Meat!!!

Thank You in advance for any assistance.

I am getting ready to stick my nose into a custody situation that I have successfully avoided for several years, because it was not something I could have an appreciable effect on until now. Children Services recently removed 5 children from the home and are meeting later this week to determine re-unification plans. 2 of the 5 are over age 10. Of the 3 under, two are grandchildren to my sister and nieces/nephews to my niece.

Currently, based on the deplorable conditions of the home, CSB sent the 3 older kids to my sister and 2 younger kids to my nieces. Their original intent was to permanently remove them all, however, people stepped up, went over to help them clean and throw out rotting clothes, trash and animal waste. The only real objection CSB still seems to have are the numerous little black bugs running free everywhere, though the house is still being heated via the electric stove.

The CSB caseworker and I both were highly surprised at how well everything appeared to straighten up for the kids, living down the street from their mom and dad/sig.other. It is my understanding if the parent(s) do get the kids back, they will be under regular visits for a long time. If the situation appears again, it is my understanding CSB will totally support custody being given to my sister and niece, should it go to court.

I must confess to being an idiot in this venue. I know courts almost always favor the parent unless CSB wishes otherwise. My problems are 1. I don't understand what process needs to be carried out, for my sister n niece to get total custody and 2. How likely are they to be successful.

The kids are distributed as follows...
My sister has the two oldest girls, 10 and 13. They are not blood relatives, and one blood relative 3. My niece has two boys 2 and 5, one is a blood relative the other is not. No one else, aside from their mother and father/sig.other, wants any of them.

I know the first step is an Ex Parte Motion, at the time CSB gives its blessing. My understanding is the judge will probably allow them to go back again from this motion/order, with stricter CSB requirements. My further understanding is CSB will yank them again if the tighter requirements are not kept up. Does the yanking back occurs within the window of the ExParte Order, or is the order cancelled at the time they are given another chance?

If they are yanked, subsequent to the time of the ex parte order, will the judge automatically grant full custody to my sister and niece? Will this require further court filings?

When discussing this, I mentioned that I thought the mother n father/sig.other might just let the kids go uncontested, as they recently acquired a viable source of support, aside from govt assistance for the kids. Another actively involved party agreed with that assessment.

Help, thoughts, suggestions, procedures appreciated.

I don't have a dog in this fight, aside from the fact that I will be footing the legal bill and have seen the deplorable conditions the kids have been living in for over a year personally. I believe they have much better homes to go to in this case, even though the income level is lateral.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[mistoffolees]

CSB has investigated and decided to leave the kids there. The chances of your sister or nieces getting custody are close to zero.

If CSB gets involved later, then ask them what the requirements are for a change in custody. Even then, it is unlikely that your sisters or nieces would gain custody - possibly temporary guardianship.

 

[Ohiogal]

CSB has investigated and decided to leave the kids there. The chances of your sister or nieces getting custody are close to zero.

If CSB gets involved later, then ask them what the requirements are for a change in custody. Even then, it is unlikely that your sisters or nieces would gain custody - possibly temporary guardianship.

CSB doesn't know. Trust me on this.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Fresh Meat!!!

Thank You in advance for any assistance.

I am getting ready to stick my nose into a custody situation that I have successfully avoided for several years, because it was not something I could have an appreciable effect on until now. Children Services recently removed 5 children from the home and are meeting later this week to determine re-unification plans. 2 of the 5 are over age 10. Of the 3 under, two are grandchildren to my sister and nieces/nephews to my niece.

Okay so you are related to the father of two of the children?

Currently, based on the deplorable conditions of the home, CSB sent the 3 older kids to my sister and 2 younger kids to my nieces. Their original intent was to permanently remove them all,

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Sorry but CSB (and I am guessing you are in Summit County) does not have that power.

however, people stepped up, went over to help them clean and throw out rotting clothes, trash and animal waste. The only real objection CSB still seems to have are the numerous little black bugs running free everywhere, though the house is still being heated via the electric stove.

Do the parents OWN or RENT the house? How many pets are in the home? Why were the clothes rotting?

The CSB caseworker and I both were highly surprised at how well everything appeared to straighten up for the kids, living down the street from their mom and dad/sig.other.

Doesn't matter. Reunification is the goal.

It is my understanding if the parent(s) do get the kids back, they will be under regular visits for a long time.

You would be wrong. That is only if the parents get legal custody with protective supervision. If CSB loses the case at adjudication then there are no visits. And protective supervision may only last three months IF THAT.

If the situation appears again, it is my understanding CSB will totally support custody being given to my sister and niece, should it go to court.

CSB will not have that power.

I must confess to being an idiot in this venue. I know courts almost always favor the parent unless CSB wishes otherwise.

WRONG. CSB does not have that power and control.

My problems are 1. I don't understand what process needs to be carried out, for my sister n niece to get total custody and 2. How likely are they to be successful.

Mom and dad would have to be proven unsuitable and your sister and niece would have to be found to LEGALLY be in the children's best interests if they filed. How likely? Probably not likely depending. There are a lot of facts that come into play.

The kids are distributed as follows...
My sister has the two oldest girls, 10 and 13. They are not blood relatives, and one blood relative 3. My niece has two boys 2 and 5, one is a blood relative the other is not. No one else, aside from their mother and father/sig.other, wants any of them.

Where is the legal father(s) of the non blood relatives?

I know the first step is an Ex Parte Motion, at the time CSB gives its blessing.

Wrong.

My understanding is the judge will probably allow them to go back again from this motion/order, with stricter CSB requirements. My further understanding is CSB will yank them again if the tighter requirements are not kept up. Does the yanking back occurs within the window of the ExParte Order, or is the order cancelled at the time they are given another chance?

Nope. NOt how it works. There is a shelter care hearing, an adjudication, a disposition and review hearings.

If they are yanked, subsequent to the time of the ex parte order, will the judge automatically grant full custody to my sister and niece? Will this require further court filings?

Full custody will NOT automatically be granted to your sister and niece. This will require further filings and hearings.

When discussing this, I mentioned that I thought the mother n father/sig.other might just let the kids go uncontested, as they recently acquired a viable source of support, aside from govt assistance for the kids. Another actively involved party agreed with that assessment.

Your opinion does not matter quite frankly. Where are the other fathers?



Help, thoughts, suggestions, procedures appreciated.

I don't have a dog in this fight, aside from the fact that I will be footing the legal bill and have seen the deplorable conditions the kids have been living in for over a year personally. I believe they have much better homes to go to in this case, even though the income level is lateral.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Parents have a constitutional right to parent. Why, if you knew for over a year, did you not do anything in that time?

 

[PQN]

Suggest to your sister and your niece that they go through the foster parent training and become licensed foster parents. It will show CPS that they are committed to being a resource for those children.

If CPS is giving the children back to mom and dad, they will stay there unless/until mom and dad screw up. Even if your sister and niece could give them a "better" home, as long as the home provided by their parents is good enough, there they will stay. But if CPS pulls them again, your sister and niece maintaining a relationship with the children and becoming licensed foster parents will both count in their favor for placement.

The only other option would be if EACH child's mother AND father (unclear how many parents are involved here) signed consents for guardianship to your sister or niece.

 

[Ohiogal]

Suggest to your sister and your niece that they go through the foster parent training and become licensed foster parents. It will show CPS that they are committed to being a resource for those children.

If CPS is giving the children back to mom and dad, they will stay there unless/until mom and dad screw up. Even if your sister and niece could give them a "better" home, as long as the home provided by their parents is good enough, there they will stay. But if CPS pulls them again, your sister and niece maintaining a relationship with the children and becoming licensed foster parents will both count in their favor for placement.

The only other option would be if EACH child's mother AND father (unclear how many parents are involved here) signed consents for guardianship to your sister or niece.

To be kinship placement, they do NOT have to become foster parents IF they have a relationship with the child. Becoming foster parents may enable them, however, to receive aid not available to kinship placements.
Guardianship WILL NOT work in this situation.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Okay so you are related to the father of two of the children?

Yes I am.

Sorry but CSB (and I am guessing you are in Summit County) does not have that power.

Then they brokered it with the mother and father/sigother.

Do the parents OWN or RENT the house? How many pets are in the home? Why were the clothes rotting?

Renting a trailer. There were about 6 cats. Washer leaking since summer. Clothes had been left in a pile under counter next to it for months.

Doesn't matter. Reunification is the goal.

agreed, unless the situation is deemed by them to warrant removal.

You would be wrong. That is only if the parents get legal custody with protective supervision. If CSB loses the case at adjudication then there are no visits. And protective supervision may only last three months IF THAT.

Ahhh So I learn....

CSB will not have that power.

which relates back to your comment. The parents ultimately decided where they went, correct?

Mom and dad would have to be proven unsuitable and your sister and niece would have to be found to LEGALLY be in the children's best interests if they filed. How likely? Probably not likely depending. There are a lot of facts that come into play.

So pursuing custody, even w/CSB's blessing is probably a waste of money.

Where is the legal father(s) of the non blood relatives?

have no clue why he seems to be totally out of the picture.

Nope. NOt how it works. There is a shelter care hearing, an adjudication, a disposition and review hearings.
Full custody will NOT automatically be granted to your sister and niece. This will require further filings and hearings.

As I mentioned earlier a major likely major waste of money then.

Parents have a constitutional right to parent. Why, if you knew for over a year, did you not do anything in that time?

you answered your own question. I won't waste my time trying to help the unhelpable.

Suggest to your sister and your niece that they go through the foster parent training and become licensed foster parents. It will show CPS that they are committed to being a resource for those children.

Good thought

To be kinship placement, they do NOT have to become foster parents IF they have a relationship with the child. Becoming foster parents may enable them, however, to receive aid not available to kinship placements.
Guardianship WILL NOT work in this situation.

I agree. Thank you all very much for your comments and opinions. I don't make it a habit of sticking my nose or my money into these situations unless I think they warrant it AND I think the outcome of my involvement will be good for the kids.

If any of you can direct me, or I will see about discovering myself, what it would take for both of them to become licensed foster parents in Ohio. Then CSB can make calls on the childrens' best interests, on their own dollar. I will simply try to have my sister and niece prepared, should they make the decision.

I will keep checking for more info and opinion...
Thanks Bunches!!!

 

[Ohiogal]

Yes I am.
Then they brokered it with the mother and father/sigother.

CSB does not have the power to broker that. They would have to go through court. And sue mother and all fathers. And I know you are related to father and this is in Summit County. Do you realize how many times Summit County has been overturned in the last year?

Renting a trailer. There were about 6 cats. Washer leaking since summer. Clothes had been left in a pile under counter next to it for months.

why didn't the landlord fix the problem?

agreed, unless the situation is deemed by them to warrant removal.

WRONG! Reunification is ALWAYS the goal unless the agency is granted a bypass by the court OR reunification is impossible due to the fact that the parent is incarcerated for longer than the case is allowed to run or dead or otherwise unable to work a caseplan.

Ahhh So I learn....

Let me be specific. If CSB loses the case at adjudication then there are no visits because the children are RETURNED to the parents.

which relates back to your comment. The parents ultimately decided where they went, correct?

No. The COURT decides.

So pursuing custody, even w/CSB's blessing is probably a waste of money.

It can be IF the parents have a good case.

have no clue why he seems to be totally out of the picture.

Well he has to have been served IF the children were removed from the custodian.

As I mentioned earlier a major likely major waste of money then.

Can not say that.

you answered your own question. I won't waste my time trying to help the unhelpable.

Umm, these case are about the children. Are you trying to help the children or the adults?

Good thought



I agree. Thank you all very much for your comments and opinions. I don't make it a habit of sticking my nose or my money into these situations unless I think they warrant it AND I think the outcome of my involvement will be good for the kids.

If any of you can direct me, or I will see about discovering myself, what it would take for both of them to become licensed foster parents in Ohio. Then CSB can make calls on the childrens' best interests, on their own dollar. I will simply try to have my sister and niece prepared, should they make the decision.

I will keep checking for more info and opinion...
Thanks Bunches!!!

If they want to be a foster parent they can check with the county agency. I am guessing Summit County due to your use of the terminology.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

why didn't the landlord fix the problem?

Why would landlord fix your washer? If parents had functional brains they would not have let this and many other things go on.

No. The COURT decides.

we are getting now and later mixed in our conversation I thinki BTW it is not Summit County.

Umm, these case are about the children. Are you trying to help the children or the adults?

I'm only willing to get involved for the kids.
However, nothing I can do, while they live with their parent(s) will make a real difference. They did just buy a new stereo and a new laptop. They also have cable TV. If I pay their gas bill, so they have heat other than their oven, they will simply continue to not pay it. If I fixed the windows they broke in their trailer, I accomplished nothing, since it finally got so cold they boarded them over. Should I fix the holes they put into the floors, when pieces of plywood over them, they deem sufficient. If I buy the kids clothes they need but do not have, they will be ruined and thrown away like all the other clothes end up (not specifically referring to the moldy pile CSB made them throw away). Should I buy their kids beds, when they chose to let them sleep on floors instead of getting them? Should I spend my money buying other things for their kids, when they chose not to spend money they have buying, simple things like coats and shoes? I am not that rich.

I cannot change someone else making continual poor choices.

 

[PQN]

To be kinship placement, they do NOT have to become foster parents IF they have a relationship with the child. Becoming foster parents may enable them, however, to receive aid not available to kinship placements.
Guardianship WILL NOT work in this situation.

True, kinship placement doesn't require them to be foster parents but the training given to foster parents can be very beneficial in helping these children, they can access higher board rates and other services as foster parents, and it sounds like they are only related to some of the children and while CPS will likely treat them as a sibling group for placement...it just covers the bases.

For my own education, why would guardianship not work? I know several people that have guardianship of their grandchildren; in all 3 cases, DCFS pulled the children and placed them with grandma/pa and in 1 case, parents did not want to work reunification plan and were allowed to sign guardianship over to the grandparents within months, in another DCFS changed the goal from reunification to permanent guardianship after the child had been in care for almost 2 years and I don't know the details on the third. Is this unique to Illinois?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

True, kinship placement doesn't require them to be foster parents but the training given to foster parents can be very beneficial in helping these children, they can access higher board rates and other services as foster parents, and it sounds like they are only related to some of the children and while CPS will likely treat them as a sibling group for placement...it just covers the bases.

For my own education, why would guardianship not work? I know several people that have guardianship of their grandchildren; in all 3 cases, DCFS pulled the children and placed them with grandma/pa and in 1 case, parents did not want to work reunification plan and were allowed to sign guardianship over to the grandparents within months, in another DCFS changed the goal from reunification to permanent guardianship after the child had been in care for almost 2 years and I don't know the details on the third. Is this unique to Illinois?

The problem here is only 2 of the 5 are blood kin. Nor are the parent(s) married.

 

[Ohiogal]

Why would landlord fix your washer? If parents had functional brains they would not have let this and many other things go on.

Was the washer in the trailer when it was rented? Is it listed as part of the items provided in the lease? Who owns the trailer?

we are getting now and later mixed in our conversation I thinki BTW it is not Summit County.

Well that narrows it down if you are correctly referring to the agency as CSB as only a few counties in Ohio use the terms CSB. Summit and Wayne come immediately to mind.

I'm only willing to get involved for the kids.

Then you would get involved regardless of the parents. Except you aren't.

However, nothing I can do, while they live with their parent(s) will make a real difference. They did just buy a new stereo and a new laptop. They also have cable TV.

They can choose on what they spend their money.

If I pay their gas bill, so they have heat other than their oven, they will simply continue to not pay it. If I fixed the windows they broke in their trailer, I accomplished nothing, since it finally got so cold they boarded them over.

The landlord should have fixed the windows. End of story.

Should I fix the holes they put into the floors, when pieces of plywood over them, they deem sufficient.

The landlord should fix the holes in the floors.

If I buy the kids clothes they need but do not have, they will be ruined and thrown away like all the other clothes end up (not specifically referring to the moldy pile CSB made them throw away). Should I buy their kids beds, when they chose to let them sleep on floors instead of getting them? Should I spend my money buying other things for their kids, when they chose not to spend money they have buying, simple things like coats and shoes? I am not that rich.

No one said you have to buy anything. But yet you won't meet the immediat needs of the children yet you are willing to gamble on hiring an attorney which could easily run into the thousands of dollars.

I cannot change someone else making continual poor choices.

No you cannot. But the individual who owns the trailer that this couple is renting is also in the wrong and has contributed to the problem.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

These trailers are barely habitable. We are talking trashed. Management will fix anything you pay them to fix. They also don't line item you for everything you destroy. In this case all the damage was caused by the tenants. They chose not to call management and say "Hey we destroyed this, come over and we will pay you to fix it." Management is willing to ignore most anything you do as long, as the rent is paid and no one else complains. You rent or a given/sold these trailers with the basic understanding the roof doesn't leak, the water lines don't leak and the gas lines don't leak. The rest is on you.

I talked to the mom today. She said she really has gotten a wake up call and wants to learn how to parent. She at least convinced me of her sincerity enough that I bought stuff to bomb the trailer. She said she will now attempt to start following my direction, if I take the time to give advice.

Anytime you want to introduce me to someone that has money to throw away on another persons kids, let me know. I'll provide the address and they can spend away. I don't have that kind of money, I am poor. The reason I was inquiring here was because I already had the name of an attorney that handles ex parte motions inexpensively. What I did not have was a good grasp on what the total bill or the process would be.