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Neighbors - Encroachment and home businesses

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M

Michigan23

Guest
What is the name of your state? Michigan

We bought our house this past fall, and learned (through a boundary survey) that our neighbor's driveway encroaches on our property. Their driveway forms a curving L-shape, and encroaches 6 feet at the bend of the "L", cutting off a corner of our yard. We love the house and decided to buy knowing of the encroachment, but would like to resolve the issue soon.

Their house is very close to ours: it was built right behind our house on the site of an old carriage house. Since they are behind us, we only have a side yard (no back yard) -- about 1/4 acre. Our house is positioned assymmetrically, so that most of our property is at one side of our house. The yard faces the street, and the far side and back side of our yard are bounded by the neighbor's driveway.

They put the driveway in 5 years ago (without permit or survey); they apparently did not know the driveway is encroaching until we got our boundary survey. The adverse posession laws apply after 15 years, so it is not an immediate threat in that sense. However, the driveway traffic makes it unpleasant to spend time in our yard. She runs a dog-grooming business from their home (which is probably not legal in our residential district, and may be worthy of a thread on its own), and someone is always coming or going.

I want to install fencing and landscaping that will make our yard feel more secluded and less like a public park. We definitely need privacy. In order to put up a fence with normal right angles, we need to resolve the driveway encroachment. If we reclaim our six feet at the corner, they will still be able to make the turn, but it would be a sharp turn instead of a gentle turn.

I don't want to do an encroachment agreement, because I don't want to have to design my landscaping around their driveway. I'm not interested in selling a strip of land. I just want them to move their driveway.

How are these types of conflicts dealt with? They accept the survey and do not dispute that they are on our property. But it does not look like they plan on recutting the driveway -- in fact they just had it resurfaced last week! I am still deciding on fencing styles, and probably won't install anything until next summer. When we are ready to put up the fence, do we have to sue to make them remove their driveway? Can we just drill the post-holes through the driveway? Can we jackhammer and remove the offending asphalt? Yikes.

I wish they would be responsible and deal with this on their own so I don't have to stress about it... He is involved in town politics (up for re-election this fall) so I'm sure they know where the law stands on these things... Besides the driveway and dog business, they are generally good neighbors who take pride in maintaining their home and garden.
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
Michigan23 said:
What is the name of your state? Michigan

We bought our house this past fall, and learned (through a boundary survey) that our neighbor's driveway encroaches on our property. Their driveway forms a curving L-shape, and encroaches 6 feet at the bend of the "L", cutting off a corner of our yard. We love the house and decided to buy knowing of the encroachment, but would like to resolve the issue soon.

Their house is very close to ours: it was built right behind our house on the site of an old carriage house. Since they are behind us, we only have a side yard (no back yard) -- about 1/4 acre. Our house is positioned assymmetrically, so that most of our property is at one side of our house. The yard faces the street, and the far side and back side of our yard are bounded by the neighbor's driveway.

They put the driveway in 5 years ago (without permit or survey); they apparently did not know the driveway is encroaching until we got our boundary survey. The adverse posession laws apply after 15 years, so it is not an immediate threat in that sense. However, the driveway traffic makes it unpleasant to spend time in our yard. She runs a dog-grooming business from their home (which is probably not legal in our residential district, and may be worthy of a thread on its own), and someone is always coming or going.

I want to install fencing and landscaping that will make our yard feel more secluded and less like a public park. We definitely need privacy. In order to put up a fence with normal right angles, we need to resolve the driveway encroachment. If we reclaim our six feet at the corner, they will still be able to make the turn, but it would be a sharp turn instead of a gentle turn.

I don't want to do an encroachment agreement, because I don't want to have to design my landscaping around their driveway. I'm not interested in selling a strip of land. I just want them to move their driveway.

How are these types of conflicts dealt with? They accept the survey and do not dispute that they are on our property. But it does not look like they plan on recutting the driveway -- in fact they just had it resurfaced last week! I am still deciding on fencing styles, and probably won't install anything until next summer. When we are ready to put up the fence, do we have to sue to make them remove their driveway? Can we just drill the post-holes through the driveway? Can we jackhammer and remove the offending asphalt? Yikes.

I wish they would be responsible and deal with this on their own so I don't have to stress about it... He is involved in town politics (up for re-election this fall) so I'm sure they know where the law stands on these things... Besides the driveway and dog business, they are generally good neighbors who take pride in maintaining their home and garden.
**A: if you and they can't agree, then let the courts settle the issues.
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
I'm no lawyer just someone in similiar situation

I'm posted under "we surveyed and theirs a problem" The land owners I'm in conflict is also in our city government. He just last year paved over a strip of land that belongs to us. Our June survey revealed. My husband and I just thought it would be easy to resolve. Now I'm not so sure because he has been accessing his property right through ours for over 15 years but didn't build anything on it. I'm going to contact our county recorder to see what info he may have and the attorneys that drew up our abstracts for our properties. I'll try to relay any advise that may be helpful. Maybe you might have advise on my post-(bottom 3 questions) Maybe all of us with similiar problems can help each other. I did learn that if they want to try and assume ownership of the land they would have to go through the county recorder to "perfect" their deeds. At least in Minnesota but that seem like it would be everywhere.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
Happy Trails said:
I'm posted under "we surveyed and theirs a problem" The land owners I'm in conflict is also in our city government. He just last year paved over a strip of land that belongs to us. Our June survey revealed. My husband and I just thought it would be easy to resolve. Now I'm not so sure because he has been accessing his property right through ours for over 15 years but didn't build anything on it. I'm going to contact our county recorder to see what info he may have and the attorneys that drew up our abstracts for our properties. I'll try to relay any advise that may be helpful. Maybe you might have advise on my post-(bottom 3 questions) Maybe all of us with similiar problems can help each other. I did learn that if they want to try and assume ownership of the land they would have to go through the county recorder to "perfect" their deeds. At least in Minnesota but that seem like it would be everywhere.
**A: ok, we saw your thread.
 
M

Michigan23

Guest
Follow-up question

Does this necessarily have do be dealt with through the courts? Since we have a boundary survey it seems pretty obvious who is in the right, so I'd prefer not to hire a lawyer unless it is really necessary.

Would we be opening ourselves up to legal problems if we drill holes and install a fence over the corner of the driveway? What if we jackhammer and remove the corner of asphalt? Is the asphalt theirs (since they paid for and installed it) or ours (since it is on our property?

Thanks in advance for any ideas & suggestions!
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
I'm not a lawyer, but I understand your frustration.

You might be able to see what your town government might have to say about them constructing a drive-way w/o doing it properly. They may have advise, (considering they have most likely have encountered this before.)

In my case an attorney probably will be my only chance. It may not be as expensive as you think for an hour of expert advise.

But doesn't it just "irk" you when someone just starts using a piece of property, whether intentionally or not and then when it's brought to their attention, they just sit on their hands, leaving the ball on your court.
 
G

gpf

Guest
I belive I would meet with your neighbor and discuss the survay. If you live in a neighborhood there might be some kind of covenant that states the rules of your neighborhood. This might state if they can run a business from their home or not, will tell you what size house you can build, and what size and how many out bulidings are allowed. There are alot of differant things that the conenant can tell you. There might be one on file at your court house or your lawer might have a copy. Good luck!!
 
M

Michigan23

Guest
Home occupations ok - driveway issue remains

Thanks. I read the town ordinances last night. Home occupations are allowed in residential areas, with several stipulations: i.e. no outdoor storage/display, must use 480 sq ft or less of home space, 7am-8pm only, no non-family employees, no more than 10 round trips per day. Kennels and animal hospitals (unfortunately neither is defined in the document) are among the list of forbidden businesses, but no mention is made of pet grooming businesses. So their business may actually be within the law.

I'd still appreciate any thoughts on what I can legally do myself to eliminate the driveway encroachment.

Thanks everyone!
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
Michigan23 said:
Thanks. I read the town ordinances last night. Home occupations are allowed in residential areas, with several stipulations: i.e. no outdoor storage/display, must use 480 sq ft or less of home space, 7am-8pm only, no non-family employees, no more than 10 round trips per day. Kennels and animal hospitals (unfortunately neither is defined in the document) are among the list of forbidden businesses, but no mention is made of pet grooming businesses. So their business may actually be within the law.

I'd still appreciate any thoughts on what I can legally do myself to eliminate the driveway encroachment.

Thanks everyone!
**A: read my reponse.
 
M

Michigan23

Guest
more detail, please....

Hi HomeGuru,

**A: read my reponse.
**A: if you and they can't agree, then let the courts settle the issues.

I got your response. My questions are more subtle:

1. Is the asphalt theirs (since they paid for and installed it) or ours (since it is on our property?

2. Can we personally remove the the asphalt and/or install a fence over their corner encroachment? Or do we have to cajole or sue them into removing it themselves? This relates to question (1) - ownership of the blacktop material. Is there a law that prevents us from doing this ourselves assuming that our boundary survey is correct?

3. Who is responsible for the cost of the asphalt removal? This probably also relates to question (1) - ownership of the blacktop material.
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
I was reading in another post. Try reading "neighbors fence and swingset on our land...options" It had some info in it that may be helpful. Good luck.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
Michigan23 said:
Hi HomeGuru,

**A: read my reponse.
**A: if you and they can't agree, then let the courts settle the issues.

I got your response. My questions are more subtle:

1. Is the asphalt theirs (since they paid for and installed it) or ours (since it is on our property?

**A: yours
*******

2. Can we personally remove the the asphalt and/or install a fence over their corner encroachment?

**A: yes
********
Or do we have to cajole or sue them into removing it themselves? This relates to question (1) - ownership of the blacktop material. Is there a law that prevents us from doing this ourselves assuming that our boundary survey is correct?

**A: the real property law would support the removal of the asphalt on your property.
********
3. Who is responsible for the cost of the asphalt removal? This probably also relates to question (1) - ownership of the blacktop material.
**A: you or they. It can be negotiated.
 

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