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New Debt During Chapter 13 Contract for Deed

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Jeremy08

Member
Nobody said the trustee was your friend
If your attorney retired, he may not legally be able to represent you any further. It all depends on what the lawyer has done to enter retirement. He may also not be willing to come out of retirement to represent you. That is something you will have to discuss with the attorney.

You are quite flippant regarding withdrawing you chap 13 filing. That is something you should really discuss with an attorney before doing. Due to the stays in place from the bk action being removed, it’s kind of like a dam bursting. if there was a valid reason for the bk prior to filing, it will be there again, and can even be worse. You may have considerable costs attributable to the bk itself that you cannot now escape.

If it is found you magically have all this money available for whatever reason, the trustee may just take a bit of added interest in your case. Magical money often suggests a fraudulent bk filing.
Nope, nothing was fraudulant. Lowering your monthly payments to cable and phone companies and changing car insurance companies can free up a couple hundred. Nothing illegal about that. The money they allot for food, it was 400.00 a month, I cut it in half by forcing myself to eat less. I lost 30 pounds and became anorexic, but hey, I saved 200 a month by nearly starving. This is NOT illegal. I have the same amount of money I had before. I just stopped spending money on food, cell phone payments and went to Sling and pulled the plug. I also started taking advantage of gas rewards (not credit) at certain stations and save about 50 a month on gas. I take advantage of the double gas points at my local grocery if I shop on certain days. This "extra" money is NOT illegal. It is not illegal to change your spending habits to live more efficiently off of your bread crumbs the trustee gives you. So, I saved enough from all that to afford property. Darn straight I'm doing it! Even if it means a headache to get out of my BK.

I can pull out and I will if I want with the help of my attorney filing the correct papers. I do not care if my home is foreclosed on since I am buying new land and my brother builds homes he would also do a contract with me to pay without a loan. After they free up the money the trustee is taking from me, any back payments owed can be paid on my cars very fast. And my home has equity as well.

The three credit card companies can just keep hounding me. Even if one does a wage garnishment, idc. I filed quickly to avoid foreclosure until I could find a more suitable option/obtain a pay raise.

Also, the lawyer was to be paid first out of my payments. He's paid already. So has the trustee. I do have my statements of where my money has went during this time. They both got paid before any creditor got a penny.

Only a small percentage of people stay in these things. They are mostly for people who have assets they want to keep and make a lot of money anyway. It keeps the creditors off your back until you can come up with a better option. Getting a raise means you can pick and choose who to pay, and if some creditor like a credit card company comes out of nowhere with a garnishment then let them and go on. To think a person would out up with a chapter 13 for a full five years is insane unless they just have no options.

My lawyer still represents me. He sent me a letter and has continued to see all of his cases he had open.

Free advice is just that...free. People should just answer the question and not go way out in left field. This is not me asking a lawyer. This is just hypothetically asking a bunch of strangers because it was an odd hour.

He will likely tell me to just not say anything. Most all of my lawyers have just waved their hand and rolled their eyes and told me not to worry about it or finangled something. They are lawyers, there is a reason people think they are dirty. Until they represent you. I always said a dirty lawyer is the best one if he's over 65 and practiced since he was in his 20's. They know every trick in the book while you are talking they are drawing webs in their head about how to use loopholes to spin everything. Especially a criminal attorney.

Another reason to purchase, hunting leases. I can, if I have to, lease to hunters my woods. Which makes money I don't even want and the trustee can use it for my creditors. And hunters are ringing me daily asking for a lease.
 
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Jeremy08

Member
Hey, that would be great to have an officially debt free home. I can see the vultures overhead as we speak.
Thy attach liens to all kinds of crap. I only had 13 grand in total debt. The "stay" was a time biding maneuver to stop a foreclosure. I've been sued twice by CC companies. They put a lien on my home and then garnished my wages. It was like a thousand dollara total. I never noticed it missing from my check. If your debt is small, it's no big deal.

I can pull 13K out quickly with a personal loan on a hand shake from my mother, in cash.

Feed the vultures. As an only child (brother is ex step) I'll get everything anyhow. Which is another reason to get out. If she dies, which she may, soon, I stand to gain a lot of money and land. No way I'm paying my money from her bank account to a trustee. That's cash, after taxes,I can use for a house, pool, roof, investments. So...I've left a message with my lawyer. I read his letter again. He isn't retiring he is just not accepting new clients, and is working from home and will see all his clients accounts until the end THEN retiring. I literally called his number today and chatted. He said I have several options, all in my favor. I faxed him my papers and tld him to do his magic.

See, it's best to just answer the question. You said to call the trustee.

Good God, I'm not a lawyer but I'd tell a person to never call the trustee. You don't have to, that's your lawyers job. That's like getting arrested and calling the detective! No, you let your lawyer call.

Calling the trustee, now THAT is a dumb thing. Sure, maybe they should know, but they don't have to know directly from you. They are there to protect the creditors and make money. You are here to protect yourself, screw your creditors, and keep your money. Your lawyer is your representative. Just like a criminal case, you let the lawyer do the talking or tell you what to say.
 

Litigator22

Active Member
Nope, nothing was fraudulant. Lowering your monthly payments to cable and phone companies and changing car insurance companies can free up a couple hundred. Nothing illegal about that. The money they allot for food, it was 400.00 a month, I cut it in half by forcing myself to eat less. I lost 30 pounds and became anorexic, but hey, I saved 200 a month by nearly starving. This is NOT illegal. I have the same amount of money I had before. I just stopped spending money on food, cell phone payments and went to Sling and pulled the plug. I also started taking advantage of gas rewards (not credit) at certain stations and save about 50 a month on gas. I take advantage of the double gas points at my local grocery if I shop on certain days. This "extra" money is NOT illegal. It is not illegal to change your spending habits to live more efficiently off of your bread crumbs the trustee gives you. So, I saved enough from all that to afford property. Darn straight I'm doing it! Even if it means a headache to get out of my BK.

I can pull out and I will if I want with the help of my attorney filing the correct papers. I do not care if my home is foreclosed on since I am buying new land and my brother builds homes he would also do a contract with me to pay without a loan. After they free up the money the trustee is taking from me, any back payments owed can be paid on my cars very fast. And my home has equity as well.

The three credit card companies can just keep hounding me. Even if one does a wage garnishment, idc. I filed quickly to avoid foreclosure until I could find a more suitable option/obtain a pay raise.

Also, the lawyer was to be paid first out of my payments. He's paid already. So has the trustee. I do have my statements of where my money has went during this time. They both got paid before any creditor got a penny.

Only a small percentage of people stay in these things. They are mostly for people who have assets they want to keep and make a lot of money anyway. It keeps the creditors off your back until you can come up with a better option. Getting a raise means you can pick and choose who to pay, and if some creditor like a credit card company comes out of nowhere with a garnishment then let them and go on. To think a person would out up with a chapter 13 for a full five years is insane unless they just have no options.

My lawyer still represents me. He sent me a letter and has continued to see all of his cases he had open.

Free advice is just that...free. People should just answer the question and not go way out in left field. This is not me asking a lawyer. This is just hypothetically asking a bunch of strangers because it was an odd hour.

He will likely tell me to just not say anything. Most all of my lawyers have just waved their hand and rolled their eyes and told me not to worry about it or finangled something. They are lawyers, there is a reason people think they are dirty. Until they represent you. I always said a dirty lawyer is the best one if he's over 65 and practiced since he was in his 20's. They know every trick in the book while you are talking they are drawing webs in their head about how to use loopholes to spin everything. Especially a criminal attorney.

Another reason to purchase, hunting leases. I can, if I have to, lease to hunters my woods. Which makes money I don't even want and the trustee can use it for my creditors. And hunters are ringing me daily asking for a lease.
 

Litigator22

Active Member
I don't know whether its fact or fiction that your post-petition income has increased by $11K. I have some misgivings including difficulty believing that your attorney would be so foolish as to tell you not to disclose it to the trustee. Anyhow and whatever the following is decidedly factual:

1. The "property" of your bankruptcy estate includes all earnings from service performed by you after the commencement of the case up to the date the case is closed. (See: 11 U. S. Code Section 1306)

2. A person who knowingly and fraudulently conceals from a trustee or other officer of the court any property belonging to the estate subjects themselves to being fined up to $250,000 and imprisoned for not more than 5 years! (See: 18 U. S. Code Section 152 - Concealment of assets, etc.).
 

Jeremy08

Member
I don't know whether its fact or fiction that your post-petition income has increased by $11K. I have some misgivings including difficulty believing that your attorney would be so foolish as to tell you not to disclose it to the trustee. Anyhow and whatever the following is decidedly factual:

1. The "property" of your bankruptcy estate includes all earnings from service performed by you after the commencement of the case up to the date the case is closed. (See: 11 U. S. Code Section 1306)

2. A person who knowingly and fraudulently conceals from a trustee or other officer of the court any property belonging to the estate subjects themselves to being fined up to $250,000 and imprisoned for not more than 5 years! (See: 18 U. S. Code Section 152 - Concealment of assets, etc.).

I have this information.

No, I have not gotten a raise YET. I WILL be in the foreseeable future.

My attorney said don't worry unless it is substantial...just today.

My plan is built in to where I must report my income tax return. Although I pay a little extra every month so the trustee won't take my taxes. I am allowed to get up to two grand back on my taxes and not get them taken. I build that into my paycheck so I get no tax refund, and use that to help fund a lifestyle similar to before. My lawyer set this up and my CPA filled out my employment paperwork so I get exactly the about I'd get as a refund, on my paychecks.

So, see, nothing is different than when I had my meeting of creditors. My income has not increased. And if it did, they would know on my tax return.

What part of "I talked to my lawyer today" was missed.

Also....a 13 is not a 5 year sentence. You can quit ANY TIME. Not all people will be in a bind if the quit. Depends on each person.

Also, when most people don't turn in raises they say they forgot or did not know they had to or it was small so they didn't think it'd matter, and nobody says much but just amend the plan and remind them. They don't go to federal pound you in the pooper prison over a small raise.


When I had my meeting of creditors that whole BK code was on the wall. I asked my lawyer about a couple of things I wondered about after and he said don't worry, it's there to scare you. I know the law, there's many ways to get around things, legally. Then pointed out that when people try to do a chapter 13 on their own they never accept it, they don't understand the laws, which are far more than the bankruptcy code.
 
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Jeremy08

Member
Also, the property doesn't belong to me.

It is written it belongs to the owners until I satisfy the agreement. And that they will pay the taxes and insurance on the property, not me.

It is not MY property until I pay for it in full. I also cannot build any structures on the poperty and as long as I have not satisfied my agreement there is a lifetime estate on it with one of the owners.

Also, if I should default it is written that what happens will up to myself and the person I am paying. Whether I force a sale, ask for money back, etc, it is a personal agreement not written on the paperwork filed. They can even choose to let me just have it if I don't pay. This is not a stranger, so what happens is very fluid since it is close family.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Thy attach liens to all kinds of crap. I only had 13 grand in total debt. The "stay" was a time biding maneuver to stop a foreclosure. I've been sued twice by CC companies. They put a lien on my home and then garnished my wages. It was like a thousand dollara total. I never noticed it missing from my check. If your debt is small, it's no big deal.

I can pull 13K out quickly with a personal loan on a hand shake from my mother, in cash.

Feed the vultures. As an only child (brother is ex step) I'll get everything anyhow. Which is another reason to get out. If she dies, which she may, soon, I stand to gain a lot of money and land. No way I'm paying my money from her bank account to a trustee. That's cash, after taxes,I can use for a house, pool, roof, investments. So...I've left a message with my lawyer. I read his letter again. He isn't retiring he is just not accepting new clients, and is working from home and will see all his clients accounts until the end THEN retiring. I literally called his number today and chatted. He said I have several options, all in my favor. I faxed him my papers and tld him to do his magic.

See, it's best to just answer the question. You said to call the trustee.

Good God, I'm not a lawyer but I'd tell a person to never call the trustee. You don't have to, that's your lawyers job. That's like getting arrested and calling the detective! No, you let your lawyer call.

Calling the trustee, now THAT is a dumb thing. Sure, maybe they should know, but they don't have to know directly from you. They are there to protect the creditors and make money. You are here to protect yourself, screw your creditors, and keep your money. Your lawyer is your representative. Just like a criminal case, you let the lawyer do the talking or tell you what to say.
I have a simple plan for a $13,000 debt



Write a check and pay it off

Easy peasy and saves the trouble of dealing with a Bk trustee.


Oh that’s right; you don’t have the money to do that


Oh well.
 

Jeremy08

Member
I have a simple plan for a $13,000 debt



Write a check and pay it off

Easy peasy and saves the trouble of dealing with a Bk trustee.


Oh that’s right; you don’t have the money to do that


Oh well.
I do have the money in savings. But it would be stupid to clean that out when I can make smaller payments.

What if I need a new AC unit? My house has two. What if I need a new roof (I do on part of my home). Last fall it cost 10 thousand to roof one part of my home. I have three separate roofs and an extremely high pitch so they must wear special gear. A whole new roof was going to cost me 21 thousand dollars. Living with NO savings is a very bad idea. Worse than eliminating all your debt at once when you don't have to.

But IF I had to, I would have my lawyer draw up a contract with promissary note with my mother to borrow the money at a very low interest (to help her out and I get it back anyway at her death and I get her home) and pay it off so I still have savings and build savings.

One thing I have learned is never use a bank to borrow money if you can legally do it from a personal entity. Banks are corporations that have too much power. I'd rather give my interest to a person as long as a lawyer creates a contract which is recorded.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
ok dude, it’s your (bs) story. You tell it anyway you want. What started as a few implausible issues has turned into a simply impossible scenario.

Carry on though. The story is kind of humorous.
 

Jeremy08

Member
I will. I will also just get out of my BK if I want.

If you aren't a BK attorney your advice is just what you think or google. Thus, free advice.

I don't want to be in the BK. So if I am told no I can't do what I want to do...I'll dismiss it. Which is not impossible. Nothing is impossible about my scenereo. Because I have full legal right to end my BK and literally in about two days time.
 

Jeremy08

Member
Go for it dude.
I'll go for whatever my lawyer works up.

If not. I'll just get out of the BK.

But the argument can be made that the land is purchased from money legally allotted to me for anything. I could spend it at the casino every month if I wanted. I can't sell the land. I also can't build on the land. I could lease a part of the land for hunting but that's a personal permission I would have with the lifetime heir and she can demand part of the money or just say no.

I am not required to pay taxes on it or insurance per the contract. So....I'm taking an amount I'd use on shoes each month to buy some land. I see it as no different since my creditors are not entitled to any part of the land. They can't be as it's not mine.

Some people buy a boat and still nobody says anything because it's bought with money they saved, legally. If they do find out, proving they intended to commit fraud is hard.
 

Litigator22

Active Member
Also, the property doesn't belong to me.

It is written it belongs to the owners until I satisfy the agreement. And that they will pay the taxes and insurance on the property, not me.

It is not MY property until I pay for it in full. I also cannot build any structures on the poperty and as long as I have not satisfied my agreement there is a lifetime estate on it with one of the owners.

Also, if I should default it is written that what happens will up to myself and the person I am paying. Whether I force a sale, ask for money back, etc, it is a personal agreement not written on the paperwork filed. They can even choose to let me just have it if I don't pay. This is not a stranger, so what happens is very fluid since it is close family.
 

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