no car title/ biz gone BK HELP !

[auctionmom]

What is the name of your state? missouri

I bought my car from a " buy here pay here" place. I had no other choice. The first car I bought, they sold the paper and the fight was on. Each claimed I needed to pay them. I payed where i bought the car however their attorney asked me not to register the car for a while because of the legal dispute.

The car developed some problems and the car place immediatly took the car back. I thought " nice of that babtist preacher!

NOT SO NICE. Come to find out, their attorney didn't file the papers as she said and now I owe taxes on a car I don't even have. ( i didn't know this when got the 2nd car) Second, I asked for the title to the second car and I was told to wait about 2 weeks and they would have it. I made 2 payments there and then the daughter called and said they were filing bankruptcy. I asked again for the title.
" they sent it to me" NOT ! What it all boils down to is they DID NOT REPORT MY CAR ON THE BANKRUPTCY. ( hiding assets to get money on the side ?) They WON"T send the title to my car. I refuse to pay another dollar until I have proof that the car is mine. They won;t return my calls or answer my letters.

I have since ran a car fax and found out the car isn't even registered in the car places name. It still is registered to the person they repossessed it from !!!!!!!!

I DO HAVE, a bill of sale showing the buisness sold me the car but no title.
I admit it, I was stupid. I trusted them I had known the family for years. I was between a rock and a hard spot.
Now that I have admitted it, where do I go from here ?

 

[JETX]

With all the different issues noted in your post, I would suggest you take your documents to an attorney to get straightened out. He/she is best able to determine actual ownership and payment requirements.

Also, it is NOT uncommon for a dealer to not hold title to a vehicle and then to transfer from the previous owner to the new owner.

 

[auctionmom]

I would do that if I had the $. Do you think it is possible to file for an abandon vehicle title ? I was on my states DMV page but I didn't see any requirments for it.

I will be glad to finish paying for the car. What I do not want to do is pay $ and get no title. An attorney is out of my price range at this time so I am hoping I can do something myself.

 

[JETX]

Okay, I was hoping that your getting a local attorney to review the documents would help to clear up your issues, but your inability to do so forces my hand.

Your post is so confusing with references to this car and that car (apparently) and one dealer selling, but no title, etc. that I really don't see anyone on this free board taking the time to try to figure it out... and then trying to offer solutions. WOuld you please post a clear and concise reply that is understandable as to what your situation is??

For example, your first paragraph:
"The first car I bought, they sold the paper and the fight was on. Each claimed I needed to pay them. I payed where i bought the car however their attorney asked me not to register the car for a while because of the legal dispute."

What fight was on? With who??
Who is 'each'. Who did you make payment to? What receipts did you get?? Who's attorney is 'their' attorney?? Etc.

 

[auctionmom]

Sorry for the confusion. Let me attempt again.

I bought 1 car from " buy here pay here" dealer. They sold the finacing paper to another company. However the dealership told me to continue to pay at their place. While the CO. holding the paper told me to pay them. I continued to pay at the dealership and recieved reciepts.

The Finance company then said I had not made any payments. I showed proof that I did. The finance company in turn sued the car dealership. At this point the dealership attorney asked me NOT to register the car and she would file the appropriate paperwork. And it was just until the law suit between the dealership and the finance company was over.

During this time, my car broke down and the car dealership gave me another car. The bill of sale says it was sold by the dealership.
I made 2 payments at the dealership while asking for my title so I could register the car. I was told to wait another 2 weeks and they ( dealership) would have it for me. After about 1 1/2 months, I had made payments, got reciepts from the dealership.
still no title, I was then informed by the dealership they were filling bankruptcy.

I asked where to make my payments and the owner of the dealership said to mail it to his home. To send a money order payable to his daughter. Since I am unschooled in these matters, it had not occured to me it was wrong.

I again asked the dealership owner ( now in the process of BK) for my title. He told me it had been sent. He ( owner) asked for money. I told him I would be happy to make my payments when I got the title I been asking for.

Since then, I recieved something from the local DMV teling me I owe taxes on the first car I bought from the dealership. the attorney had never filed the proper paperwork. So it is reported that I had bought this car and never bothered to register it.

I have since ran a car fax, found out the title is in the past owners name. By the way, the car did not pass inspection so I did put minor money in to it. However, I can not register the car or get insurance until I have the title.

Things that are clear:
1. Dealership has filed BK and did not report my car as being sold by them.

2. I have no title to my car

3. Continual request for title via phone and letter has not been answered.

4. DMV says I owe $200 for taxes because I follwed dealerships request.

questions:
1. Can I file for an abandone car title ?

2. Will I still have to pay the past taxes from the old car ?

3. should I just pay the dealership owner and hope he sends me the title?

4. If I pay, then I will be subject to fines from the local DMV and it will show the BK dealership as the leinholder. So wouldn't I need to get new paperwork ? If I do that, then wouldn't I be helping them commit fraud?

5. Should this dealership be reported for BK fraud? If so, can I get in trouble for being stupid?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

auctionmom

 

[JETX]

Okay, lets try this.....

1) "I bought 1 car from " buy here pay here" dealer. They sold the finacing paper to another company. However the dealership told me to continue to pay at their place. While the CO. holding the paper told me to pay them. I continued to pay at the dealership and recieved reciepts. "
Dealership selling the note to a lender is very common. However, once you knew that there was a lender involved, you should have made payments directly to them... as they instructed. Simply, you were making payments to the wrong person/company.

2) "The Finance company then said I had not made any payments. I showed proof that I did. The finance company in turn sued the car dealership."
Again, this is all clear.... the auto seller was taking the money and not sending it to the lender. The lender now wants payments. Auto dealer is a crook.

3) "At this point the dealership attorney asked me NOT to register the car and she would file the appropriate paperwork. And it was just until the law suit between the dealership and the finance company was over."
Why would you not file the title??? You pretty much allowed yourself to be 'set up'... now the title is in limbo and you have no one to transfer to you.

4) "During this time, my car broke down and the car dealership gave me another car. The bill of sale says it was sold by the dealership."
Now, this gets confusing... what happened to the outstanding balance owed on the first car?? What financing (if any) was done on the 2nd car?? What documents were signed by all parties as to the return of the first car and the replacement by the 2nd car??As to the bill of sale... it should show that the dealership was the seller.... nothing unusual here.

5) "I made 2 payments at the dealership while asking for my title so I could register the car."
Two payments for which car... the 1st that you no longer owned?? And who was carrying the note on the 2nd car??

6) "I was told to wait another 2 weeks and they ( dealership) would have it for me. After about 1 1/2 months, I had made payments, got reciepts from the dealership.
still no title, I was then informed by the dealership they were filling bankruptcy."
The dealerships potential (or even actual) filing for bankruptcy has nothing to do with the title, nor does the filing put them out of business. They still have legal obligations to fulfill. Contact their attorney (the one who told you to wait) and demand that they talk with their client and get a valid title and transfer it.

7) "I asked where to make my payments and the owner of the dealership said to mail it to his home. To send a money order payable to his daughter. Since I am unschooled in these matters, it had not occured to me it was wrong."
Again, bigger mistake. Weren't your 'alarms' going off by this time??? Where was 'common sense' (no special 'schooling' required)!!


questions:
Q1) "Can I file for an abandone car title ?"
A1) No. The car is not 'abandoned'. Since you ran your CarFax, consider contacting the original (titled) owner and see if they are willing to sign the title.

Q2) "Will I still have to pay the past taxes from the old car ?"
A2) Possibly. Explain the circumstances to the DMV. If you have to pay, another life lesson learned...... and you can file against the dealership.

Q3) "should I just pay the dealership owner and hope he sends me the title?"
A3) NO. Pay NOTHING to the dealership owner. The lender has already paid the dealership..... when they purchased your 'paper'. You owe your money to the lender.

Q4) "If I pay, then I will be subject to fines from the local DMV and it will show the BK dealership as the leinholder. So wouldn't I need to get new paperwork ? If I do that, then wouldn't I be helping them commit fraud? "
A4) Confusing. You said the dealership didn't take title, now you claim that they are a lienholder!!!

Q5) "Should this dealership be reported for BK fraud? If so, can I get in trouble for being stupid?"
A5) I would certainly contact the Trustee for the bankruptcy action and let him/her know the facts on the petitioner. And no, stupidity is not a crime.

Finally, what was the business form of the dealership (Corporation, d/b/a, etc.)?? If individually owned, did the individual file for bankruptcy also??

 

[auctionmom]

3) Why would you not file the title??? You pretty much allowed yourself to be 'set up'... now the title is in limbo and you have no one to transfer to you.
ok, I see the confusion here.

The title in this paragraph is from car #1. The dealership gave me the title on this listing them as leinholder. So it was noted to the DMV as being sold. I did not register it because the attorney asked me not to until the legal dispute was settled between the 2 companies.
A. what is left is the $ owed for taxes on this car even tho I never registered it. I agree, I probably should pay the $200 bucks and learn my lesson.


4) Now, this gets confusing... what happened to the outstanding balance owed on the first car?? What financing (if any) was done on the 2nd car?? What documents were signed by all parties as to the return of the first car and the replacement by the 2nd car??As to the bill of sale... it should show that the dealership was the seller.... nothing unusual here.

The balance from car #1 was transfered to car #2. Then the dealership deducted the previous payments from car #1, gave me a trade in $ for car #1 thus giving me the balance for car #2.

As for the finacing, it was to be done by the dealership themselves. They decided they would carry the paper and not sell it given the previous problems.

The documents signed was a bill of sale stateing
1. car #1 as a trade in for Car #2
2. showing the $ amount still owed on car #2
3. a " notice of lein" on a DMV form listing the dealership as a lein holder

If I can say something here. I just pulled my info here. The bill of sale just states Car #1 as a trade in. Looks like the remaining balance was rolled over. LORD HIT ME NOW !!!!!!

When I went to get insurance, the guy told me I couldn't get insurance without a title and I couldn't get it registered without a title.

5) Two payments for which car... the 1st that you no longer owned?? And who was carrying the note on the 2nd car??

2 payments for car #2. Dealership carrying the note for car #2

6) "The dealerships potential (or even actual) filing for bankruptcy has nothing to do with the title, nor does the filing put them out of business. They still have legal obligations to fulfill. Contact their attorney (the one who told you to wait) and demand that they talk with their client and get a valid title and transfer it.

Had not thought of it. I hope the attorney still handles them.

7) Again, bigger mistake. Weren't your 'alarms' going off by this time??? Where was 'common sense' (no special 'schooling' required)!!

alarms going off? Yes. I did not pay another penny to them at this point. ( every payment had been made to the dealership. not a single payment was made to an individual) And I had already decided I would make it a check made payable to the dealership. how he cashed it was his problem. However, since they won't return calls or send a title, I haven't sent one thin dime.


questions:
Q1) "Can I file for an abandone car title ?"
A1)consider contacting the original (titled) owner and see if they are willing to sign the title.
I had thought of this. Then I had more questions. like what if their title shows the dealership as lein holder ( car fax did not say so)


Q2) and you can file against the dealership.
Another possiblity.. I had already explained it to the DMV. They didn't care who paid it. I am left holding the bag on this one. ( I have been busy this morning)

Q4)A4) Confusing. You said the dealership didn't take title, now you claim that they are a lienholder!!!

The car fax says they do not have title to it. However, since it was a car they had previously sold and repossessed (sp?)
I am very confused here as well. I have the "notice of lein", no car title, and a car fax report with yet another name on it as registered owner.
This is how I assumed it was done.
1. sell car
2. repossess if needed
3. re-register it back to dealership because of loan default
4. resell car with dealership as lein holder
I guess a paper game.

Q5)
A5) I would certainly contact the Trustee for the bankruptcy action and let him/her know the facts on the petitioner.

Another good idea. I just want my butt covered in all areas. I have tossed stupid out the window and I am working on " common sense" <G>


Finally, what was the business form of the dealership (Corporation, d/b/a, etc.)?? If individually owned, did the individual file for bankruptcy also??

It was a corporation (inc) So the buisness went BK. I don't know if the individual did. I didn't think you could touch the person if they were incorporated. The owner and his daughter are listed as owners.

 

[hpatt]

in reply to this conversation i would like to say there is a such thing as a title bond, in which is filed for the loss of an original title. You would have to call your local police dept. let them get the vin # off the vehicle, they will issue you a document stating that they have seen your bill of sale, the vehical is owned by you now and the original title is gone.

the other question of do you have to pay back taxes. you probably will if the car has not been tagged since you bought it. but if you have been buying a tag every year you should not have to pay back tax.




Good luck