Not very ethical but is this illegal?

[laurielu]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

My husband went to the dentist back in late June for a root canal and crown. No problem with that....dentist was great and everything went well, despite the fact that he was in the chair for five hours because he was an "emergency work in" and the dentist had other patients to see inbetween the work she did on him. The problem is.....the woman who takes care of the financial end of things figured out how much he was going to owe after insurance paid their share and then had him sign a form stating he agreed to have the money taken out of his bank account on a certain date....but he was under the influence of nitrous at the time she made him sign it. He has absolutely no recollection of signing it and they didn't even give him a copy of the form after he was done. Needless to say, since he doesn't remember signing it, he was pretty shocked when he saw that money taken out of his acct the next month. We had every intention of paying the bill.....and it's taken care of now.....but this just seems alittle fishy to me. Is it legal for them to have him sign documents when they know he's whacked out on laughing gas??

This same office did something that was a bit troubling to me about six months ago. Took my daughter in to have a cavity filled and once she got back there, the dentist found a second one she wanted to take care of. Instead of coming out into the waiting room to let me know and have me sign the consent form, they let my daughter sign the form and I was left sitting there for an extra hour wondering what was going on. Granted, she is 18 years old but I'm listed as the responsible party on her acct and shouldn't they have asked me first?

We have no issue with the dentist....she's really good at what she does. It just seems to be the office staff that has problems and I know I should talk to the dentist about it but I haven't gotten up the nerve to do that yet. I'm just thinking it's time to find another dentist. But still......I'm curious about the first issue.....having my husband sign that form while under the influence.....and if that was legal on their part. Thanks very much for any input.

Laurie

 

[ecmst12]

Your husband should have reviewed his paperwork after he recovered, then he would have known what he signed and could have stopped it beforehand if necessary. The transfer did not happen for a month! And it is possible that he signed shortly before receiving the medication, but it affected his memory afterwards (that can happen).

Your daughter is an adult and not only can but MUST consent for her own treatment. Your consent is not required and HIPAA prevents them from even discussing her care with you without her explicit consent - even if you signed to be financially responsible.

 

[laurielu]

Thank you very much for your reply. I forgot to mention that he did come home with some paperwork that day....receipts with the charges for each procedure that was done....but the one form they had him sign about the money being taken out of his bank acct was not included. Might have been an oversight on their part....maybe not....and you're right....he should have made sure he had everything squared away before he left the office but as I said, he doesn't recall signing that form so he couldn't have known to ask for a copy. And I wasn't kidding when I said he had been in the chair for five hours....he was miserable.....and I suspect he just wanted to get out of there. At the very least, they should have taken into consideration the fact that he may not have remembered alot of what happened that day because of the nitrous and should have made sure he had copies of everything. I've personally never had laughing gas so I don't know what it's like....or the after effects of it.....but if it can cause him to forget things he did even before he got it....he should have been informed about that, which he wasn't. Also wanted to mention that I'm not sure sure why the transfer not happening for a month afterward is important but signing on to the bank acct website and seeing 1000 bucks gone with no recollection of why is pretty shocking. Anyway, we don't plan on pursuing this or anything like that....we owed them the money and it's done. I just wanted some feedback about whether or not this is a proper thing for a dentist office to be doing.

As far as my daughter is concerned, I wasn't aware that her consent was all they needed, even though she doesn't pay the bills. Every other time I've taken her in there, they've always come out into the waiting room to let me know what they're doing. We used to go to another dentist here in town and I went there several times with my older daughters, who were 18, and that dentist always kept me advised about the work she was going to do. We had a much better relationship with that dentist and her staff, though, so perhaps that is why she did that. We only started going to this new dentist because her office was closer to the house. Guess it's time to go back to the other one.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Laurie

 

[tammy8]

Who drove your husband? If he was too out of it to be what you consider in sound mind, I truly hope he did not drive himself

 

[laurielu]

He drove himself. I was at home waiting for a phone call just in case he might need a ride home but once they stop administering the nitrous, the effects wear off almost immediately so by the time they wrapped things up, he stopped by the front desk and made another appt, he was alert and oriented, no problem there. Even the dentist said he was ok to drive home. It was just during the time of the root canal that he was under the influence of the laughing gas and that happened to be the exact moment the girl who does the financial stuff in the office came in the exam room to have him sign the form. I already know what she did was not very good business practice, to say the least...not to mention unethical....but I was just interested in anyone else's opinion.

Thanks.
Laurie

 

[Zigner]

So did he ever think, during that period of time IMMEDIATELY BEFORE and IMMEDIATELY AFTER the procedure, to ask what the payment arrangements would be?

I suspect your hubby simply signed something without reading it.

 

[ecmst12]

Or he just forgot about it, in a perfectly natural, non-drug related way, because he was so stressed out by the procedure. It would have been difficult for him to provide his bank account info for an EFT if he was really that out of it.

 

[Zigner]

Or he just forgot about it, in a perfectly natural, non-drug related way, because he was so stressed out by the procedure. It would have been difficult for him to provide his bank account info for an EFT if he was really that out of it.

Excellent point...

 

[LdiJ]

Or he just forgot about it, in a perfectly natural, non-drug related way, because he was so stressed out by the procedure. It would have been difficult for him to provide his bank account info for an EFT if he was really that out of it.

Not if he had a checkbook/check on him, or one of those little cards that they give you for your wallet.

I will never forget the day that I had my wisdom teeth removed. The oral surgeon had his nurse bring me my purse, take my checkbook out of my purse, fill it all out except my signature, and have me sign it while I was still in the dentist chair, totally groggy from the anesthetic.

Now, it was clarified ahead of time that I intended to pay by check, but it was still disconcerting.

 

[laurielu]

One thing I forgot to mention....so sorry about that....he did sit down with the lady in charge of financial arrangements before he was taken back for his procedure. She told him how much the total was, how much he would owe after insurance paid their share and asked him to pay part of his bill that day. He had no problem with that and gave her his debit card. That's how they got the number. She ran it through, gave him a receipt and he was called back to one of the exam rooms to begin the fun stuff. haha But she never fully discussed payment arrangements with him regarding the $1000 that was left. He came home with the impression that we'd send the rest in the mail. And I can't say this for sure but I suspect she started typing up the "I the undersigned, agree to pay this much and have it charged to my card number blah blah on this particular day" piece of paper.....the one we never got a copy of......after he was taken to an exam room. I do know for a fact, though, that she brought the paper in for him to sign after someone had started administering the nitrous so he was already off in la-la land when she told him to sign it.

He would have read it if he could. He's a working professional and reads everything that comes across his desk both at work and home, including the fine print. Keeps logs of all the phone calls he makes and receives, including date, time, who he talked to, what it was about, you name it. He's a perfectionist when it comes to that sort of thing. So while the argument about him not reading it before he signed it might be possible for some folks, it doesn't apply to him. And when it comes to having to spend money, wow, he would have read that back and forth at least five times.

As I said before, we had no problem paying the bill and had every intention of doing so. It's just the way they went about getting the money that irritates me. I used to work in a medical office for many years and one of our docs did procedures on people using twilight sedation. If we'd ever tried to get them to sign something while they were whacked out, we would have had a lawyer at the door the next day. That's why I'm alittle surprised this dentist office is doing this. There may come a day when they try this on someone who isn't as eager to let it go as my husband is and then they could end up in trouble.

Anyway, thanks again for your responses.
Laurie

 

[ecmst12]

I don't see any laws were broken but you are certainly free to take your business elsewhere if you are not comfortable with their procedures.

 

[eerelations]

As far as my daughter is concerned, I wasn't aware that her consent was all they needed, even though she doesn't pay the bills. Every other time I've taken her in there, they've always come out into the waiting room to let me know what they're doing. We used to go to another dentist here in town and I went there several times with my older daughters, who were 18, and that dentist always kept me advised about the work she was going to do. We had a much better relationship with that dentist and her staff, though, so perhaps that is why she did that. We only started going to this new dentist because her office was closer to the house. Guess it's time to go back to the other one.

Personally I wouldn't want to go back to a dentist that I'd just found out was a lawbreaker.

 

[Zigner]

Personally I wouldn't want to go back to a dentist that I'd just found out was a lawbreaker.

It's entirely possible that the 18 year old adults authorized the sharing of the protected information

 

[eerelations]

It's entirely possible that the 18 year old adults authorized the sharing of the protected information

Seems strange though, that they'd authorize it at one dentist and not the other.

 

[Zigner]

Seems strange though, that they'd authorize it at one dentist and not the other.

It may not have come up yet at the new dentist. I'm not saying that they did it RIGHT at the old dentist. Just saying that's there's nothing to show they did it WRONG at the old dentist.