NY Property - What is the process? What sort of communications should one expect?

[not2cleverRed]

State: NY, FL
Property in NY was co-owned by 2 brothers. They inherited it in the 90's from their dad; it was their childhood home. Neither have lived in NY state since the early 60's.
The brother in FL died in 2020. His will divides his share of the property between the surviving brother and a nephew (also not a NY resident).
The law firm in FL handling his estate finally started to address the NY property. As no one in the firm was a member of the NY bar, the retained the services of a NYC lawyer. In December 2021 Waivers of Process were signed.
The surviving brother hadn't heard anything since, and when updating his own estate planning, his lawyer reacted out to the NYC and FL lawyers in February 2023. Apparently the NYC lawyer sent the Letters of Testamentary appointing the FL lawyer as Personal Representative.

What should happen next? The NYC lawyer is done, "his representation complete", and the FL lawyer seems to be waiting on more.

Who I am: one of the surviving brother's kids. Dad no longer can handle the internet.

 

[adjusterjack]

Communication? Well, My guess is you communicate with the FL lawyer by phone or email and ask what the status of the NY property is and/or what the FL lawyer is waiting on.

Have you done that?

With what result?

If you haven't done that, try it and report the results.

Where is the NY property located? City? Town? Borough?

 

[not2cleverRed]

I've reached out to the FL lawyer and that's why I'm here. The communications from the NYC lawyer shared by dad's lawyer and the FL lawyer have been terse. He seems to think it's obvious what to do after one has the "letters have been sent", but apparently the FL law office disagrees; the FL law office asked the NYC lawyer if there was anything they needed to do to push things forward, and he responded, "I am not sure what you’re asking. Our representation is complete. For any questions please reach out to the executor." The Personal Representative is the FL lawyer.

The property is in a hamlet in the eastern part of Suffolk County, the nearest Surrogate Court is Riverhead. Personally, I think it would have been more practical to use a local law firm. Because it's clear that the FL folks could use some friendly guidance on the next steps, and the locals are less brusque.

 

[adjusterjack]

There comes a point in any probate where the assets of the estate are disposed of, either by conveying ownership to the heirs or selling the assets and dividing the proceeds. This happens after all the creditors of the deceased are paid and funds set aside for expenses.

The two heirs to the property can decide if they want to take ownership or sell the property and divide the proceeds.

Either way, it's up to the executor (with assistance of his attorney, of course) to accomplish that.

If the two heirs want to take ownership the executor will have to deed the property from the estate to the heirs and record the deed in the county where the property is located. If they want to sell the property, the executor can sell it on behalf of the estate by hiring a realtor where the property is located.

A realtor and an escrow/title company should know how to handle all the paperwork.

Once the NY part of the probate is completed, there are forms to fill out and submit to the court closing the NY probate.

See "Closing the Estate" at:

7JD Surrogate's Court - Fiduciary Responsibilities | NYCOURTS.GOV

Forms can be obtained at the Surrogate Court's website:

Home - 7JD Surrogate's Court | NYCOURTS.GOV

 

[not2cleverRed]

That's what I thought.

So I know who I should be nudging to do what.

 

[zddoodah]

I'm going to refer to the FL brother as Frank and the other one (your father) as Otto. I'm going to refer to the nephew as Neil.

Property in NY was co-owned by 2 brothers. They inherited it in the 90's from their dad; it was their childhood home. Neither have lived in NY state since the early 60's.

Is there is a properly recorded/filed deed reflecting that Frank and Otto jointly owned the property?

The brother in FL died in 2020. His will divides his share of the property between the surviving brother and a nephew (also not a NY resident).

Is there a properly recorded/filed deed reflecting the transfer of Frank's interest from his estate to Otto and Neil? Kinda sounds like the answer is no.

What should happen next?

No one here will have the slightest idea what should happen next in a probate proceeding about which we have no information.

If your father is concerned about the progress of the the probate of Frank's estate, he may want to retain his own attorney to review the situation and advise him.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Is there is a properly recorded/filed deed reflecting that Frank and Otto jointly owned the property?

Yes.

Well, it was until Otto put all his real estate into a trust over a decade ago..

Is there a properly recorded/filed deed reflecting the transfer of Frank's interest from his estate to Otto and Neil? Kinda sounds like the answer is no.

Kinda think the answer is no.

The FL people handling Frank's estate seem to not understand that the NYC lawyer was only getting the Testamentary Letters, and that the onus was on them using the authorization granted by those letters to transfer ownership.

No one here will have the slightest idea what should happen next in a probate proceeding about which we have no information.

If your father is concerned about the progress of the the probate of Frank's estate, he may want to retain his own attorney to review the situation and advise him.

That's what I've been thinking.

 

[adjusterjack]

Well, it was until Otto put all his real estate into a trust over a decade ago..

If the NY property was deeded to the trust then it should not have been necessary to get letters testamentary just to handle the disposition of the property. I qualify that because it may have been necessary for other purposes.

A trust allows the trustee to convey property to the beneficiaries by executing a deed from the trust (the property owner) to the beneficiaries (or sell the property) without having to deal with courts.

Have you ever played the game where you line up a bunch of people and the person at one end whispers something to the person next to him who, in turn, whispers it to the person next to him, and so on down the line where the last person tells the message? The result invariably is garbled and unintelligible. Well, it seems like this is what is happening here. There are many metaphors that describe what's happening: Too many cooks spoiling the broth, monkeys effing a football, chinese fire drill or, in military terms, SNAFU and FUBAR.

Anyway, if you want to get a handle on this I suggest that YOU get a copy of the most recent deed for the NY property and see what the ownership is. The Suffolk County Recorder of Deeds has a web page where you can put in the property address and see what comes up. Then figure out how to get a copy.

Suffolk County Recorder of Deeds - Riverhead, NY (Address, Phone, and Fax) (countyoffice.org)

Come back and report what you find.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Update: discussed this with Otto's lawyer today as part of meeting about updating his estate planning. Otto's lawyer thought the responses of Frank's lawyers had been very weird. Furthermore, Otto's lawyer discovered that Frank's FL lawyer was suspended from the FL bar, effective last fall, for 3 years. The case was related to an estate of similar size, and similar practices that we have observed with Frank's estate.

Granted, one's FL bar status is irrelevant to dealing with NY real estate and one's ability to sign a deed.

I gave Otto's lawyer the name of a NY firm that Otto had previously used for real estate.

Thank you everyone. I mostly wanted a reality check.

 

[adjusterjack]

You should still get a copy of the NY property deed.