Overnight visitation, 4 year old, dad lives 3 hrs away-Please Read! Too Many Details

[lnscott]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

Okay, here's the deal. My daughter just turned four years old in September. When she was 1 1/2 she was abused by the preacher at a daycare I had her in. When that happened, emoitionally/mentally it set her back. She withdrew from people. She's better now and you'd never guess it happened. However, when it comes to mommy and daddy - she's still at the age where I don't think she understands everything.

When my ex-husband and I filed for divorce we both still lived in the same city. Since then, he moved three hours away and managements 75-80% to see our daughter every other Saturday. Lately, he's been wanting to press the issue of our daughter spending the weekend with him.

In addition to that, when I was married to her dad he was occassionally doing drugs and into pornography. He's also living with his girlfriend. I don't know if his habits have changed or not. I don't know what kind of house he lives in and I do not know anything about the girl he is living with (other than that he was cheating on me with her while we were married). I've brought up trying to get to know her and he refuses.

Given this information and our daughter's past experience, I'm not sure how she'd handle spending two nights away from home with someone she only sees two days a month. Is there anything I can do to postpone over night (weekend) visits until she's older (5 or 6)?

 

[kidoday]

What does your court order say about overnights?

 

[lnscott]

The divorce papers say that he has reasonable visitation. To this day I don't remember what the guidelines are on this. He can see her x number of hours a week and is suppose to have her every other weekend (I think).

I guess the problem is I want to know if I have a case to change that. Like I said, when we filed for divorce we both lived here. In addition to moving three hours away after the divorce the abuse she suffered also took place. I never worried much about changing the order back then because during that time we were lucky to see him once every other month and that was usually for a few hours. It wasn't until after he moved that he really started sticking to a visitation schedule that we agreed on - which was that he comes down every other Saturday and spends the day with her...and now, in the past year, he's been raising the issue of wanting her for the weekend.

 

[nextwife]

I am not quite certain WHY a child that was abused by a third party is detrimentally affected by having greater time spent with an alternative male presence: their father. I am on weblists with many families who have adopted their kids after parental rights have been terminated,either in EE or domestically. A strong, consistant, loving male presence for children who have suffered abuse,sexual or physical, is not inconsistant with healing.

I presume you have made certain your child has recieved therapy? Have you spoken to the therapist about what they think of increasing the father's participation? Is there a reason they do not feel this would be positive?

 

[kidoday]

Unless you can come up with solid proof that this will be detrimental to the child, the court is going to insist on you following the original order.

I suggest you get out the original order, read it and follow it.

I would also suggest you not go into court saying he used drugs and pornography when we were married. That doesn't make you look any better than it does him.

 

[stealth2]

It sounds to me as though he's been thoughtful enough to understand that his previous absence may have been disturbing to her, and has taken time (a year) to become a regular presence in her life. I don't see how it's unreasonable for him to desire to now want her to spend time with him at his home. He is her father, and he's not unknown to her. I think his request is perfectly rational.

 

[lnscott]

It's not that it's detrimental (so to speak) to my child. I've always looked out for the best interst of my daughter especially when her father hasn't.

Obviously, this situation isn't normal and you don't know me or my ex-husband so it's not easy for (any of) you to know what I'm thinking, feeling, etc. This is not an issue my ex-husband causing any harm to our child. As for therapy---she was 1 1/2! She couldn't even talk and because of that incident didn't really start talking until about a year later. She's in speech therapy now and in time, I may consider having her talk with a therapist if I feel it's necessary.

The point I'm trying to get to is that I don't know if she's old enough to understand. She sees this man 2 times a month. That's it. To her, he's "daddy" not a father. He's someone who visits while she's at grandma's (her uncle picks her up the morning of the day he visits), brings her toys and clothes, and then literally drops her off at the end of the day. How do you send her home (forget any of the circumstances she may be walking into) with this man? The first time he has to be a real father and tell her no and raises his voice she's going to lose it and he's not going to know how to handle her or the situation. We're talking about sending a four year old three hours away from home (her comfort zone) to spend two nights with a guy who she's seen maybe 50 times in the past two and half years.

Put yourself in my shoes for just a second and pretend this is your child. Would you try to have the original order revised given that the circumstances have changed since they were drawn up? Do I even stand a chance? I'm asking for real advice.

 

[stealth2]

Well, the previous wasn't fake advice, but be that as it may.

How do you know he's going to raise his voice to her? How do you know she's going to lose it when (if?) he does? Why is "daddy" different/worse than "father"?

What is it you want to revise the orders to? Have you considered suggesting that you bring the child to where he lives, and then you stay overnight at a nearby hotel the first few times? That way you're close by if there is a problem, but he has the opportunity to continue stepping up to the plate. Think outside the box on how to solve this problem and keep him in her life, since he seems to want to be there.

 

[kidoday]

I wasn't giving you my opinion. The advice I gave is that you will end up having to abide by the court order.

Since he has been in her life for the past year, he really isn't a stranger. I don't see anywhere in what you have written that suggests no over night visitation. Yes it can be traumatic the first time away from home, but children are resilient. More than likely this is what you will be told by a Judge.

Sorry if that isn't what you were looking for.

 

[lcollins]

Have you and he tried to work out a plan that will gradually introduce her to the schedule of going to her father's? If he's been asking for so long to have overnight visits and hasn't taken you to court to enforce it, I personally think he's being more than reasonable. Maybe allow him to take her to his home for a full day (maybe you would even agree to meet him 1/2 way?), to let her adjust to that environment, after a while maybe she could try spending one night, then moving up to two nights. Maybe the best thing for her is to learn who and what Dad is.

 

[nextwife]

You really need to foster the father/child relationship. He;s been denied overnights up until now. It's time to transition her into a schedule of overnights with dad. It's been too long coming as it is.

Like or not, THIS is the man you chose to father your child. You can't go back and pick a different one.

Oh, FYI- a non-verbal or pre-verbal child who has had a negative experience CAN indeed benefit from therapy. Look into it. Many of our PI kids, my daughter included, have benefited from a type of therapy called "playtherapy" in which they can act out in a guided way (often using doll characters and dollhouses) their fears and concerns. Mine was two when she came here, non-verbal, and heaven knows what she saw or experienced in the orphanage. She was 2 1/2 before she talked as well.

Kids are pretty resilient. Building up her relationship with her father is more likely to be beneficial than anything else.

As to porn, if every male that looked at porn were denied time with their kids, there would be an even greater number of fatherless kids.

As to drugs, I don't approve either, but there are plenty of drug or alchohol using moms who manage to retain custody, even though the father is not using.

Consider this. Make a deal with dad. Offer to look at increasing visitaion later over and above the court order (granting some extra time) if he stays drug free and can prove it to you..

 

[FJ1200guy]

REAL advice.

Well, as real as I know how to be!

Talk to him, and tell him your concerns. Be honest, and non-confrontational, so that his defenses aren't raised. Parents can shut down the listening devices on the sides of their heads when parenting skills are even slightly questioned (even the perception of being questioned, which you may or may not be doing).

Then tell him you will work towards letting him have overnights. It's the right thing to do, and with both of you working toward this goal, it should make your child, and in this case more importantly YOU, feel better about it.

And HEY!!!!! Nextwife??? I resemble that comment on porn! heh heh

Lyle

 

[lnscott]

Ok, first of all, I think there was a misunderstanding on the "real advice" comment. I said that because I have seen so many of these things turn into 100's of posts that don't say anything. That wasn't directed at anyone. I'm sorry if you thought it was. It was not my intenetion. My apologies to anyone I offended.

While, it may not be what I "wanted" to hear. It's basically what I expected to hear. My family has been pressuring me to go to a lawyer to have the visitation agreement revised and I wanted a feel for whether or not it was worth my time or the money. Which, it doesn't appear to be.

As for taking her to him and staying there - I did go there and spend the night at a hotel once. Mainly, because he wanted her on the 4th of July and I already made promises to her that he wanted me to break. However, he wanted to take her to the zoo and spend the day with her, so I made arrangements for him to do so. I requeted that she be brought by the hotel by 10 p.m. because I wanted to leave by 6 a.m. before the heat set in because I had my grandfather with me who cannot, with his health, take the heat.

I realize it's easy for you all to think I'm being unreasonable in wanting this postponed. However, if I put every detail into this I'd be here all day. But add a little more, he's only asked for her for the weekend ONCE and that was the time I drove there and let him have the whole day. Since then he's only dropped a hint here and there (maybe twice) in the past year about wanting to start doing this. I'm working ahead of myself (so to speak). I'm not a bad person, just a little overprotective and I believe in covering my bases.

My main problem, in addition to my daughter's reaction, lies in the fact that I don't know ANYTHING about his life now. I don't know where he lives, what kind of neighborhood it is, what his habits are now, what kind of people he has over to the house...etc etc etc. The problem is - he doesn't want me to know and that's what scares me. I wants me no where near his girlfriend and I think I have a right to know who helping with the care of my child. I've even offered to have the two of them over for dinner on a night when he's here visiting our daughter so we could get to know one another. He always declines.

As for talking to him and voicing my concerns. I've tried that MANY times. He doesn't want to LISTEN to me. He HEARS what I'm saying; but, then he reads in his own meaning and then just assumes I'm angry when I'm not. I don't hate my ex-husband. I wish we could talk and be friends. However, until he gets to know me (and not who I was two and half years ago when I was dependent on him). That's not going to happen. He'll continue to jump to the same conclusions.

Someone asked how I knew how she'd react if he raised his voice to her - she's my daughter. I've raised her and seen her through everything alone since she was a year old without any help from him. He didn't even pay child support until I went to the Prosecutor's office back in January and finally got his wages garnished a few months ago. I know how she reacts in certain situations and while I've learned to decifer which ones are out of fear and which ones are temper tantrums...he won't.

It's hard to put everything into these posts because I don't want to sit here and drudge up all the reasons why I have the fears I do. Nor do I really want to bring up every bad thing my ex-husband has done in the past. The only reason I brought up the drugs and the porn was because my family wanted those to be factors that to take to the judge. I did this to get them off my back and maybe they'll listen to me now. I was just wanting to know if there was a way to postpone over night visits for a year or two - not indefinitely. If there's not, then there's not.

For those of you that still have advice, I'll still check this for awhile.

NEXTWIFE - I would like some more information on that therapy. I hadn't heard of that before. If you could email me some more information. I'd really appreciate it. [email protected]
Thanks!!

 

[nextwife]

"NEXTWIFE - I would like some more information on that therapy. I hadn't heard of that before. If you could email me some more information. I'd really appreciate it"


I decided to post some links publically, as there may be other readers who would wish to know about therapy for children who have suffered preverbal trauma:

http://www.playtherapyaustralia.com/

http://www.neiu.edu/~jkedward/playtherapy.htm

http://www.playtherapy.org/resources/

Good luck.

 

[mommymia]

I have a question regarding a problem of this nature that might help this person as well:

What information am I entitled to have in regards to my exhusband? He has always kept our children in OK, but I found out that he took them to his house (3 hours away) in KS this weekend without telling me. He pitched a fit tonight when I asked for his address and claims I have no right to know that, and he has only given a cell phone number. I have no idea who he lives with, where, a phone number, nothing. How much information are custodial parents entitled to from there exes?


As to the OP, like I said above, my kids father (they are 2 and 4) took them overnight to KS and didn't bother telling me. This bothers me but I feel there is nothing I can do about it. He is, after all, their father. Maybe you could start slowly, let him keep her overnight and pick her up first thing in the morning and build up from there.