Partial Federal Judgment used to collect in State Court Judgment? Establishing company links for collection

[GrapesofWath]

What is the name of your state? UT

I have a default judgment in Utah against both a company(company X) and its owner.

I also have a partial judgment in federal court against Company X and a partial list of alter ego companies for Company X.
Basically saying that ( Company X = Company A, Company B, Company C, Company D, Company E)
However I can't collect using federal court's authority because all the federal alter ego cases have not been completely adjudicated yet. The owner is a serial filer of new companies. So new company are being added all the time.

My question is if I can use these establish links recognized by the Federal court to collect on the default judgment in state court?

In other words, state court said I am allowed to collect on Company X and its owner but state court said that Company X is the alter ago of Company B,C,D and E)

So I am wondering if you can used that Federal judgment/information to collect in State court? Does a state court typically recognize federal court judgment/information?
I would like to start collecting on company B. Perhaps I would be asking if someone knows of a reason why it would not work since they may be an uncommon process but based on sound reasoning.

Thanks .

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? UT

I have a default judgment in Utah against both a company(company X) and its owner.

I also have a partial judgment in federal court against Company X and a partial list of alter ego companies for Company X.
Basically saying that ( Company X = Company A, Company B, Company C, Company D, Company E)
However I can't collect using federal court's authority because all the federal alter ego cases have not been completely adjudicated yet. The owner is a serial filer of new companies. So new company are being added all the time.

My question is if I can use these establish links recognized by the Federal court to collect on the default judgment in state court?

In other words, state court said I am allowed to collect on Company X and its owner but state court said that Company X is the alter ago of Company B,C,D and E)

So I am wondering if you can used that Federal judgment/information to collect in State court? Does a state court typically recognize federal court judgment/information?
I would like to start collecting on company B. Perhaps I would be asking if someone knows of a reason why it would not work since they may be an uncommon process but based on sound reasoning.

Thanks .

If your judgment is against Company X and X is a holding (or parent) company, with A, B, C, D, and E operating as separate companies under X, the assets of X’s subsidiaries (its children) can be (and if set up properly, probably are) protected from any legal actions taken against X.

With the information you have provided, however, the answer to your questions is “I don’t know.”

 

[GrapesofWath]

If your judgment is against Company X and X is a holding (or parent) company, with A, B, C, D, and E operating as separate companies under X, the assets of X’s subsidiaries (its children) can be (and if set up properly, probably are) protected from any legal actions taken against X.

With the information you have provided, however, the answer to your questions is “I don’t know.”

Federal judgment already said that company X and company A,B,C,D,E are the same. There is overwhelming evidence to support the claim.
The only reason why I can't currently collect on A,B,C,D,E is because there is pending legal actions against company F,G,H,I,J,K as also being an alter ego companies. The entire federal lawsuit was about linking the companies together as alter ego of company X.

Question is about Federal rulings being used as evidence or being recognized in state court.

I already know I can collect on the federal ruling once all matters have been adjudicated however that could take a while.

I would like to start collecting using the state's court judgment I have against Company X. I am just wondering if they will accept the information provided by the judgment in the federal court that proves that Company X is alter ago of Company A-E.

I realize this may be kind of a rare question.

 

[adjusterjack]

If I am reading this correctly, you will have to wait until you get a federal judgment against the additional companies.

You cannot collect against the additional companies with your state judgment unless the state judgment names those companies.

 

[GrapesofWath]

If I am reading this correctly, you will have to wait until you get a federal judgment against the additional companies.

You cannot collect against the additional companies with your state judgment unless the state judgment names those companies.

Federal judge has declared the 2 companies to be the same. Does that mean absolute nothing in state court?
If you are using a fake name and someone has a judgment against your fake name. Does that shield you if federal government /courts recognize that your real name and alias name were one in the same?

Are you speaking from case law on someone doing this exact same thing and was denied by the state judge?

I feel maybe the law is unclear on this and the outcome may depend on the judge?

The judge would have to say something to the effect of " I don't care what other judges say in other courts, this is my court and I am king" Which I have seen some judges say on certain youtube video showing like outrageous court moments.

I believe that sometimes Federal court and state courts do have overlapping issues. Federal courts looking at state laws and vise versa.

"Under the “alter ego” doctrine, the law may disregard a corporation's separate existence and hold its owners personally responsible for corporate debts when necessary to prevent fraud and accomplish justice. "

So this has been established but instead of a owner and his company, its a company and another company.

The issue is the alter ego has establish in Federal court and the collection is in state court. Question is if I can combine this 2 things and present the federal ruling to the state court judge?

 

[Taxing Matters]

Question is about Federal rulings being used as evidence or being recognized in state court.

Federal court decisions are not used as evidence in other cases. Federal appellate court decisions on matters of federal law will set precedent that the courts below it must apply in other similar cases. The value of a federal court opinion in state courts is for persuasion of the state court. If the state court judge finds the reasoning in the federal opinion is sound it may adopt the same position if the case has similar facts to the federal case. State courts, however, do not have to apply federal court decisions of state law. The state courts are the ultimate arbitrator of state law issues. You may ask the state court to take notice of the federal court's decision and you may generally cite to the federal court's opinion in motions or other filings with the state if the citation is relevant to the issue before the court.

I would like to start collecting using the state's court judgment I have against Company X. I am just wondering if they will accept the information provided by the judgment in the federal court that proves that Company X is alter ago of Company A-E.

The answer to that is no. In order to collect against the alter ego companies with a state court judgment you will need the state court to issue a decision that the elements of an alter ego claim have been met and issue to you a state court judgment that names the entities that are subject to the judgment. In other words, the state court isn't going to agree to extend the judgment you have to other entities just because a federal court did that. The state court has to develop its own opinion based on the evidence presented to it and the law applicable in that state, And that means litigating the matter in the state court to provide evidence showing that the other entities are indeed alter egos of the company you have the judgment against.

In short, you can't use the federal case decision to short cut the state litigation process. But it can be useful as one tool to try to convince the state court to take the same position the federal court did.

In this kind of litigation, it is extremely helpful to be represented by an attorney. Going into an alter ego claim pro se will be difficult because you likely don't know what the state law requires to make company Y an alter ego of company X and likely don't know what you would need to present to the court to prove that.

But before doing that, you'll want to find out if any of those entities have assets that enough value above any state law exempt amount and that would cover any claims by creditors that got their judgment before you did. In other words, you want to know what you might reasonably get all of this after taking into account what it will cost you to litigate the matter and get the alter ego judgments.

If you do get the alter ego judgments, you likely also will want an order from the court preventing the company with the assets from transferring them yet again to some other new entity that he creates. If you don't do that you may end up endlessly chasing each entity as it moves assets before you can grab them.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Federal judge has declared the 2 companies to be the same. Does that mean absolute nothing in state court?

The federal district court decision doesn't have to be followed by the state court on any matter of state law. The federal opinion may be useful as one way to persuade the state court judge that that these other entities are alter egos of the original company you obtained the initial judgment against.

If you are using a fake name and someone has a judgment against your fake name. Does that shield you if federal government /courts recognize that your real name and alias name were one in the same?

You'd need to satisfy the state law court that the federal court determination was correct as to any state law determinations that it made. Again, the state courts are the ultimate arbiters of state law and don't have to follow a federal court decision on state law.

The judge would have to say something to the effect of " I don't care what other judges say in other courts, this is my court and I am king".

I don't think it likely that the state court judge would put it quite that way. But the state court judge can decide that the federal court got the state law wrong and in that circumstance the state court analyze the state law and issue its ruling based on that analysis. The state court is not bound by a federal court's determination of state.

I believe that sometimes Federal court and state courts do have overlapping issues. Federal courts looking at state laws and vise versa.

Correct. But if a federal district court is applying state law (as it would in a diversity jurisdiction case) it must apply the decisions of the state appellate courts on that issue to reach its decision. Similarly, a federal court is not bound by what state court says about the application of federal law.

"Under the “alter ego” doctrine, the law may disregard a corporation's separate existence and hold its owners personally responsible for corporate debts when necessary to prevent fraud and accomplish justice. "

You may indeed have a good alter ego or nominee situation here. While I was at IRS I had a number of instances in which I had to establish that Company B was the alter ego or nominee of Company to get at the assets of the business. Alter ego is not just applied to individuals and the businesses they own.

The issue is the alter ego has establish in Federal court and the collection is in state court. Question is if I can combine this 2 things and present the federal ruling to the state court judge?

You either need to get the federal judgment finalized or litigate the alter ego issue in the state court and get final state court judgments against those various entities. You won't be able to take the federal judgment to the state court and simply have the state court rubber stamp it so you can collect under state law. You would still be able to use federal court to enforce the federal judgment, however.[/QUOTE]

 

[GrapesofWath]

You either need to get the federal judgment finalized or litigate the alter ego issue in the state court and get final state court judgments against those various entities. You won't be able to take the federal judgment to the state court and simply have the state court rubber stamp it so you can collect under state law. You would still be able to use federal court to enforce the federal judgment, however.

[/QUOTE]

Federal judgment finalization would be my ideal solution but that might be a long way off since new companies are routinely being formed and joined to the case so all matters have not been adjudicated yet. Also Federal court is apparently a million times slower than state court, maybe the judges have higher or more complicated case load. If I litigate the alter ego issue in state court also, it sounds like res judicata situation which may not be legal?

The same issue being litigated in 2 courts. Is that even allowed?

 

[Taxing Matters]

You may use your federal judgment much like a state court judgment to collect what you are owed, but the federal judgment and a state court judgment are not the same.

If the exact same issue with the same parties is being litigated in two different courts that's a problem. When a plaintiff has a choice of forums the plaintiff needs to pick just one of those to litigate the matter. I'm surprised the defendant hasn't already moved to dismiss or at least stay one of the cases. It makes no sense for the parties to pay legal costs to litigate the matter in two different forums. If the federal judgment is final one of the parties needs to file a motion to dismiss the state court action.

 

[Litigator22]

What is the name of your state? UT

I have a default judgment in Utah against both a company(company X) and its owner.

I also have a partial judgment in federal court against Company X and a partial list of alter ego companies for Company X.
Basically saying that ( Company X = Company A, Company B, Company C, Company D, Company E)
However I can't collect using federal court's authority because all the federal alter ego cases have not been completely adjudicated yet. The owner is a serial filer of new companies. So new company are being added all the time.

My question is if I can use these establish links recognized by the Federal court to collect on the default judgment in state court?

In other words, state court said I am allowed to collect on Company X and its owner but state court said that Company X is the alter ago of Company B,C,D and E)

So I am wondering if you can used that Federal judgment/information to collect in State court? Does a state court typically recognize federal court judgment/information?
I would like to start collecting on company B. Perhaps I would be asking if someone knows of a reason why it would not work since they may be an uncommon process but based on sound reasoning.

Thanks .

If what you call "federal judgment information" discloses non-exempt assets accredit to a judgment debtor, why would executing a judgment against same (federal or state) be considered an "uncommon process"?

You seem to incorrectly imply that any such asset must by unknown means signify whether subject to satisfaction of one or the other, but not either.

 

[GrapesofWath]

If you do get the alter ego judgments, you likely also will want an order from the court preventing the company with the assets from transferring them yet again to some other new entity that he creates. If you don't do that you may end up endlessly chasing each entity as it moves assets before you can grab them.

I 100% agree, what would that order be called in legal terms? Mandatory Injunction?

Where there is a order from the court preventing the company with the assets from transferring them yet again.

Thanks.

 

[quincy]

I 100% agree, what would that order be called in legal terms? Mandatory Injunction?

Where there is a order from the court preventing the company with the assets from transferring them yet again.

Thanks.

Temporary restraining order and asset freeze.

 

[GrapesofWath]

Temporary restraining order and asset freeze.

Both temporary restraining order and asset freeze at the same time or is it one or the other?

Thanks

 

[GrapesofWath]

Temporary restraining order and asset freeze.

I understand asset freeze but how does the temporary restraining order fit in?

keeping him physically away from the bank ?

Thanks.

 

[quincy]

I understand asset freeze but how does the temporary restraining order fit in?

keeping him physically away from the bank ?

Thanks.

The temporary restraining order and asset freeze is used to keep the defendant from accessing and disposing of assets until a show cause hearing can be scheduled and heard on why the court should not enter a preliminary injunction.