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Passing a school bus ticket in NJ

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eileenclaire

Junior Member
My 18 year old daughter received a ticket for passing a stopped school bus. She was on a 4 lane highway that did not have a divider. I know this will result in 5 points on her insurance.

About 10 lawyers sent letters offering their services. I called one, who told me he had worked cases in our local township courtroom for over 20 years, knows the prosecutor, and stated that the judge is tough. He told me he could get the charge lowered to careless driving for 2 points. When I asked him how certain he was that he could do this, he said 100%.

I am reluctant to hire him. Is it ethical for a lawyer to say he is 100% certain he can have this charge lowered? Or is he just saying what I want to hear so I will hire him?

Do I need a lawyer for this charge? Would it be better to go to court with or without one? There is no question that she committed this offense. She is a new driver with a provisional license.

I will be grateful for any advice you can give. Thank you.
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
First off, NJ insurers are free to score tickets anyway they like. Mine for example only has two levels for traffic infractions (and this would be the minor one).

It is not permitted for someone with a provisional GDL to plead down to a no point offense. If a lawyer tells you otherwise he is mistaken. She will have to take the DIP class to keep her license.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Sometimes people make mistakes from inexperience. Sometimes they are targeted. The end result for which the penalty can sometimes be extreme. A local lawyer, experienced with the prosecutor, can sometimes convey to the prosecutor that leniency should be given in certain cases. This presentation can often result in an amended charge the client has agreed to in advance and an amended charge, which saves court time. I would only retain him if he promises to try for N.J.S.A. 39:4-97.2 Unsafe Driving which is a hefty fine with no points and one step down from careless driving, which could involve jail time and and a suspension for which she can likely get it reduced to without him. I would justify this on the basis that even though she did not stop as required by law, her unsafe driving would not have affected a passenger discharged who then attempted to cross 4 lanes and she is now clearly aware of all statutes pertaining to school buses and will not repeat the mistake.
 

eileenclaire

Junior Member
Sometimes people make mistakes from inexperience. Sometimes they are targeted. The end result for which the penalty can sometimes be extreme. A local lawyer, experienced with the prosecutor, can sometimes convey to the prosecutor that leniency should be given in certain cases. This presentation can often result in an amended charge the client has agreed to in advance and an amended charge, which saves court time. I would only retain him if he promises to try for N.J.S.A. 39:4-97.2 Unsafe Driving which is a hefty fine with no points and one step down from careless driving, which could involve jail time and and a suspension for which she can likely get it reduced to without him. I would justify this on the basis that even though she did not stop as required by law, her unsafe driving would not have affected a passenger discharged who then attempted to cross 4 lanes and she is now clearly aware of all statutes pertaining to school buses and will not repeat the mistake.
We have been informed that this cannot be reduced to zero points; the lowest it can go is 2 points for careless driving. Are you saying that we could get it down to careless driving without the help of a lawyer? My understanding is that there will be no suspension or jail time involved here.

I would be paying a lawyer between $250 and $300.
 

Bali Hai

Senior Member
We have been informed that this cannot be reduced to zero points; the lowest it can go is 2 points for careless driving. Are you saying that we could get it down to careless driving without the help of a lawyer? My understanding is that there will be no suspension or jail time involved here.

I would be paying a lawyer between $250 and $300.
Sounds reasonable.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
It is also illegal to plead down charges against a CDL holder. By having a lawyer interact with the prosecutor the charge is not being plead down, it is being amended to one the driver is acknowledging guilt to. Once it goes to court it become a plea down. It is a fine distinction, but it is a factual one.

An example is when I was driving in Indiana, they were doing construction throughout an interstate intersection and trucks had legal access to 3 of the 4 lanes. The 4th lane terminated due to construction and the 3rd lane had no signage re-designating it as being a no truck lane. During rush hour, it is impossible to change lanes even when the 4 lanes are open. The number 1 lane then terminated, leaving 2 and 3 with 4 barricaded off, then reappeared. Still no signage indicating no trucks in the left lane. At the end of the zone was an Indiana trooper who was operating on a Federal grant to target truckers. He was sitting on the unbarricaded portion of lane 4 where it was getting ready to reopen. He was pulling over trucks, some of whom would not think it safe to fight across 2 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic and would pull into the closed lane 4, where he would give them two tickets the equivalent of reckless operation, (left lane/left shoulder) plus a speeding ticket for riding the speed of traffic and any other he might observe as a non DOT trained Trooper. I was not foolish enough to fall for his bonus tickets and saw him well before he could have gotten me for running with traffic as I had slowed. After about the 1.5 miles it took for me to safely move to the right shoulder as the law requires he gave me the bogus lane ticket for which he admitted there were no signs present during construction. I never presented the registration for my trailer when he asked for the registration. It would have required climbing out of the truck and going back to the trailer box. A local traffic attorney discussed the issue with the prosecutor, who amended the charge to my failure to present the registration when asked, which was a minor infraction.


Again, it is against the LAW to plead down to a non-point violation with a GDL.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
It is also illegal to plead down charges against a CDL holder.
Not CDL, GDL. Graduated Drivers License (also known as Early Bird or Provisional licensing). He's not going to get it plead down. It is against the LAW in NJ to do this. It isn't going to happen.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Not CDL, GDL. Graduated Drivers License (also known as Early Bird or Provisional licensing). He's not going to get it plead down. It is against the LAW in NJ to do this. It isn't going to happen.
CDL Commercial Drivers License. http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/384.226

The concept is similar.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
We have been informed that this cannot be reduced to zero points; the lowest it can go is 2 points for careless driving. Are you saying that we could get it down to careless driving without the help of a lawyer? My understanding is that there will be no suspension or jail time involved here.

I would be paying a lawyer between $250 and $300.
Why will you be paying for your ADULT childs driving mess? Have the ADULT who messed up pay for it. :)
 

eileenclaire

Junior Member
She will be paying for the attorney's fees, as well as the extra insurance cost. She'll be making installment payments to us, since she goes to college and works part time.
 

Bali Hai

Senior Member
She will be paying for the attorney's fees, as well as the extra insurance cost. She'll be making installment payments to us, since she goes to college and works part time.
The most important thing she does is realize that she put innocent children in danger and accept personal responsibility. Driving a 4000 lb vehicle is dangerous and if she injured someone's child or worse, the parents wouldn't be interested in hearing about her plea bargain, attorney fees, insurance rates, points on her license, etc. etc. THIS time that's all she has to worry about.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
You said the road did not have a divider. I assume you meant grass or concrete. Was there a lane in the middle with a set of double yellow lines on each side? That is in fact a divider in some states.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
The concept isn't similar in the least. Nobody loses their livlihood over GDL violations. The state is disinclined to bargain (and specifically because it's against the law).
 

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