PayPal mess

[pano911]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Sold four one ounce gold coins, two transactions of two coins; to a buyer in NY state. He paid me thru PayPal with two transactions; both were funded by payments to PayPal from his credit card ($4,700). As soon as the money appeared in my PP account and I was 'cleared' by them to ship, I did. USPS Registered mail; two separate shipments, insured for full amount. The buyer got the coins according to the tracking numbers; I never heard back from him either positive or negatively. Paypal won't let you withdraw the funds for some time; this made me nervous so the day they released the funds, I withdrew them (about three weeks later).
I felt better having the money in my own bank account...until... A month later I got two e-mails from PP, saying the buyer had disputed the transactions with his CC company. They made my account -$4,700...I would be out this money now had I not withdrawn it. They asked for whatever info I had to fight this "Chargeback". I sent them the tracking numbers proving he'd gotten the coins assuming this would be the end of it...wrong!! A few weeks later they e-mailed back saying that his CC company had decided in his favor and there was nothing I could do but send them (PP) the money they now claimed I owed them. Enraged, I called PP and finally managed to get someone to talk to me about the claims....they said the buyer had claimed to have RETURNED the coins to me. They even gave me the tracking number he had provided to them and to his CC company. I was both shocked and surprised, as I had not only never received anything back; but there was never even any communication between they buyer and me indicating he was not happy or that he wanted to return the coins. I went on the USPS website and punched in the Tracking number they had given....it showed delivery to a person that was not me or known to me at an address that is not mine (although it was in my zip code)!!! I called PP back and explained this and that it was my feeling that I (and they, PP) were being scammed as I clearly sent him the coins and he clearly DID NOT return them to me as he'd claimed.
They agreed and re-opened the dispute with his CC company with the new info. Again I was confident that the matter would be decided in my favor....wrong. A few weeks later they again e-mailed me saying sorry, but the CC company again sided with the buyer! There was nothing more they could do; and by the way, please send them $4,700!!!
I changed my bank account for fear they would take the money directly from it as my PP account was linked to my bank account. Now they have sent me to collections...I immediately answered the collection letter saying it was not a valid debt as the matter is still in dispute.
I now feel like I need to take legal action to get this supposed debt extinguished. I know they (PP) supposedly either try to make you agree to arbitration or sue them in Santa Clara county, CA. Despite this I've found some mention online of suing PP with success in your local small claims court even if not in their county.
Do I have a case and if so can it be pursued locally (Los Angeles) or do I need an attorney in Santa Clara County?

 

[JETX]

Do I have a case and if so can it be pursued locally (Los Angeles) or do I need an attorney in Santa Clara County?

Based solely on your post, it appears LIKELY that you have a valid claim. The question is whether it should be against PayPal (they did nothing wrong).
You need to file your lawsuit against the BUYER. It sounds like he screwed up by sending the coins to the wrong address (if he sent them at all).

 

[pano911]

Thanks.
My feeling is that what they did wrong is try to collect money from me that is rightly mine. The name and address that the buyer supposedly sent these coins to bears no resemblance to mine; nor was there any attempt by him to contact me with a 'heads up' that he was returning them. The Buyers CC transaction was with PayPal; not directly with me. They (PP) should be pursuing him (the buyer) through his CC company. I feel they choose not to as obviously the CC company is a much tougher, more hardened target than myself. They choose to simply say; "Oh well, too bad, not our problem". Of course this is the problem so many people seem to have with PP....they supposedly insulate and protect both parties from dealing directly with one another but in reality there is no protection at all.
I guess the court can decide the validity of my claim (against PP); the question is can I do this in my local small claims court?

 

[JETX]

Thanks.
My feeling is that what they did wrong is try to collect money from me that is rightly mine. The name and address that the buyer supposedly sent these coins to bears no resemblance to mine; nor was there any attempt by him to contact me with a 'heads up' that he was returning them. The Buyers CC transaction was with PayPal; not directly with me. They (PP) should be pursuing him (the buyer) through his CC company. I feel they choose not to as obviously the CC company is a much tougher, more hardened target than myself. They choose to simply say; "Oh well, too bad, not our problem". Of course this is the problem so many people seem to have with PP....they supposedly insulate and protect both parties from dealing directly with one another but in reality there is no protection at all.

Actually, PayPal didn't do anything TO you. The decision to deny your dispute was solely by the credit card company.

I guess the court can decide the validity of my claim (against PP); the question is can I do this in my local small claims court?

You can certainly try.... and then if the defendant tries to argue venue, you can argue to the court that your location is your 'home' and where the contract was made.

 

[Zigner]

OP - you have NO VALID CLAIM against Paypal. I'm not going to dig through the user agreement as I'm sure you are able to (and probably already have).

Your beef is with the guy in New York. So, hop on over to NY and file a small claims suit.