jennings85
Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Illinois
I sold industrial equipment to a buyer in Texas. He paid me with Paypal, amount: $1250.00. This transaction was not done through Ebay. I had the same item listed on Ebay. The buyer bid on it in the last 30 seconds but was outbid. He contacted me through email and asked if I had any more. I did have another and we made a deal. The buyer has a website for his business, and it is indeed a business that would use what I was selling.
I shipped the item the next day after receiving payment. He received it, was satisfied and said he wanted to buy another later on. Three weeks after the payment, I got an email from Paypal saying the transaction was being investigated as fraudulent, and they put a temporary hold on the money. I emailed my buyer, he replied he didn't know what was going on. He had gotten an email from PP saying someone had tried to hack his bank account and consequently PP had frozen his account. He said he would 'make it right'. I called PP, but got nowhere with them. My transaction was not eligible for the PP seller protection plan because the buyer did not have a confirmed address. Every time I called PP, all I got was a canned response that next time I should make sure my transaction was eligible for the SPP.
Now...before anyone here lectures me about being covered by the SPP, I now know in hindsight that it is important to make sure a PP transaction is eligible for the SPP. However my quest is find out why I was cheated out of my money. At this point I really don't know if I have been cheated by the buyer or by PP. If PP made a mistake in taking my money away, I don't think the SPP should absolve them of making mistakes. One of my theories is that PP tagged ALL of my buyers transactions as being fraudulent just because they suspected someone of trying to hack into his bank account. My transaction was guilty by association, an innocent bystander. Anyway, two weeks after receiving the email from PP stating the money was put on temp hold, I got an email from PP saying they had determined the payment to be unauthorized and they had reversed the transaction. They refunded the money back to my buyer! Meanwhile I kept emailing the buyer asking him if he had resolved the situation. He kept telling me he couldn't look at his PP account because it had been frozen. I was suspicious of him because he never contacted me, I always had to contact him. I told the buyer I would seek legal action, he frantically forwarded to me the email he had gotten from PP telling him his account had been compromised. But, eventually he stopped answering my emails. I filed a police report with the police in his town in Texas. My buyer showed the investigator his documentation that a payment had been made. The last thing I heard from my investigator was that he planned to contact PP. I know he will probably need a subpoena to get any info from PP.
My buyer has no incentive to right this wrong, even if it wasn't his fault. He has the merchandise AND his money. I can't find a sensible person at PP who will listen to my story and think "hey, maybe we DID make a mistake, I should check into this".
As I said, I don't know if I've been cheated by PP or the buyer. It's easier for me to go after the buyer than PP. I have the buyer's name, address, phone number, email address, and website address for his business. I have pictures of the merchandise, UPS tracking info, and all emails.
My legal question is:
If the buyer indeed has his money refunded by mistake from PP, he certainly has a moral obligation to resend the money to me, but does he have a legal obligation? Would the small claims court just tell me it's the buyer's lucky day and my unlucky day?
If I take this to small claims court, do I have to make a trip to Texax? Can I sue for my expenses? I'm not even sure I could win this case, I think all the buyer would have to do is show proof he made a payment, which he did initially.
If anyone here has some advice for me on how to resolve this with PP, I would certainly appreciate it. I'm afraid I have no recourse since having checkmarked that I accepted their user agreement. PP has certainly covered all their tracks with the user agreement.
Does PP ever admit they made a mistake?What is the name of your state?
I sold industrial equipment to a buyer in Texas. He paid me with Paypal, amount: $1250.00. This transaction was not done through Ebay. I had the same item listed on Ebay. The buyer bid on it in the last 30 seconds but was outbid. He contacted me through email and asked if I had any more. I did have another and we made a deal. The buyer has a website for his business, and it is indeed a business that would use what I was selling.
I shipped the item the next day after receiving payment. He received it, was satisfied and said he wanted to buy another later on. Three weeks after the payment, I got an email from Paypal saying the transaction was being investigated as fraudulent, and they put a temporary hold on the money. I emailed my buyer, he replied he didn't know what was going on. He had gotten an email from PP saying someone had tried to hack his bank account and consequently PP had frozen his account. He said he would 'make it right'. I called PP, but got nowhere with them. My transaction was not eligible for the PP seller protection plan because the buyer did not have a confirmed address. Every time I called PP, all I got was a canned response that next time I should make sure my transaction was eligible for the SPP.
Now...before anyone here lectures me about being covered by the SPP, I now know in hindsight that it is important to make sure a PP transaction is eligible for the SPP. However my quest is find out why I was cheated out of my money. At this point I really don't know if I have been cheated by the buyer or by PP. If PP made a mistake in taking my money away, I don't think the SPP should absolve them of making mistakes. One of my theories is that PP tagged ALL of my buyers transactions as being fraudulent just because they suspected someone of trying to hack into his bank account. My transaction was guilty by association, an innocent bystander. Anyway, two weeks after receiving the email from PP stating the money was put on temp hold, I got an email from PP saying they had determined the payment to be unauthorized and they had reversed the transaction. They refunded the money back to my buyer! Meanwhile I kept emailing the buyer asking him if he had resolved the situation. He kept telling me he couldn't look at his PP account because it had been frozen. I was suspicious of him because he never contacted me, I always had to contact him. I told the buyer I would seek legal action, he frantically forwarded to me the email he had gotten from PP telling him his account had been compromised. But, eventually he stopped answering my emails. I filed a police report with the police in his town in Texas. My buyer showed the investigator his documentation that a payment had been made. The last thing I heard from my investigator was that he planned to contact PP. I know he will probably need a subpoena to get any info from PP.
My buyer has no incentive to right this wrong, even if it wasn't his fault. He has the merchandise AND his money. I can't find a sensible person at PP who will listen to my story and think "hey, maybe we DID make a mistake, I should check into this".
As I said, I don't know if I've been cheated by PP or the buyer. It's easier for me to go after the buyer than PP. I have the buyer's name, address, phone number, email address, and website address for his business. I have pictures of the merchandise, UPS tracking info, and all emails.
My legal question is:
If the buyer indeed has his money refunded by mistake from PP, he certainly has a moral obligation to resend the money to me, but does he have a legal obligation? Would the small claims court just tell me it's the buyer's lucky day and my unlucky day?
If I take this to small claims court, do I have to make a trip to Texax? Can I sue for my expenses? I'm not even sure I could win this case, I think all the buyer would have to do is show proof he made a payment, which he did initially.
If anyone here has some advice for me on how to resolve this with PP, I would certainly appreciate it. I'm afraid I have no recourse since having checkmarked that I accepted their user agreement. PP has certainly covered all their tracks with the user agreement.
Does PP ever admit they made a mistake?What is the name of your state?