pennsylvania, rental house being sold, precious cat!

[paddler]

I live in montgomery county , pennsylvania. i have rented a carriage house on the larger property of a twin for nearly the last 5 years. 1 yr lease only the first year. month to month now. landlady resides on property and is about to put entire property on the market for sale. i have a show cat that is skittish and fears strangers and tries to escape under stress. do i have the right to not only demand advance notice(24hrs) before any viewing (inspector/realtors/prospective buyers) but also to require that i be able to be present to secure cat. this would require appointments to be made only after 4:30 pm and on weekends. i don't even know if i have any rights without a written lease. no previous problem with landlady. thanks! help!

additional note. i love my apartment and plan to stay if new buyers want me. pardon me, but the cat is not irrelevant.i have paid them on time and have been income for every month of nearly 5 years with only two repairs...water heater and leaky roof, hardly my fault. my inconvenience is indeed relevant. i need legal advice, not opinions, please.

[Edited by paddler on 03-19-2001 at 05:57 PM]

 

[LL]

Without knowing anything about PA law, I would bet that you are entitled to advance notice, maybe 24 hours. The notice gives your opportunity to be present. The cat is irrelevant.

 

[dj1]

Why not start packing your bags TODAY!

Explain to the landlady IN WRITING! That you have given your 30 day notice and will be out by April 30th...due to your cat....

And since your cat is prone to escape a 24 hour notice is required or the offending party will be sued, for damages because it is a show cat.

No kidding......The cat would be considered a Financial loss just as if they STOLE your brand new big screen TV.

I am a cat lover......and sometimes a pet is more important then anything... even selling a house!

If they cannot give you 24 hours, then they must take the financial risk!

 

[LL]

Hogwash.

They have to give you notice according to the law, whatever that is in PA.

The purpose of the notice is give you opportunity to protect your stuff, by being there, having someone else be there, etc. If you don't use the opportunity, then they are not responsible for anything just from being there, only if they took or damaged something (you have to prove it). If your cat needs protecting, then it is your responsibility to protect it.

Check PA law for the conditions under which landlord is allowed to enter the apartment. In most states, you get notice of intention to enter, not the opportunity to negotiate when they can enter, unless the landlord is willing to cooperate.

 

[dj1]

I beg to disagree ...... A business is a busines, if the cat is a business then it has rights to exist and anyone who damages a business is finaniclly liable for damages.

Of course if she is given 24 hours notice, and a specific time, THEN it is her responsiblity for the protection of the ASSETS of the business..aka the cat.

if anything happens to the cat because they came unnanounced or they were early, then if the cat vanishes why would it be any different then a breaking and enterting...it was without the authority of the "leaseholder".

I would take this VERY seriously....

 

[LL]

Ohhhhhhh dj !

Here you go again.

Well, the cat is not a business. Its an animal. Maybe it can be considered business property, maybe even a capital gain, but it is still an animal and the property of its owner. It is the owner's responsibiity to care for it, and if the owner knows that there is a problem and has notice of the landlord's intention to enter, then it is her problem to give the animal whatever it or she needs.

Check the local law, but most states don't require a specific time. They don't usually require the landlord to be prompt. Usually, a 4 hour window is enough for a repairman.

It is, of course, not breaking and entering in any form. The landlord usually does not need the consent of the leaseholder, usually by law, perhaps also by the lease. The leaseholder had notice to allow her to protect her privacy.

Who are you kidding, dj?
I would answer such a letter, pointing out my rights under the law, and charge the tenant say $50 or $100 per hour for harassment in sending such a letter. I would deduct it from the security deposit and if the tenant challenged it in court, I would file a counter-claim for the amount. The letter from the tenant is the evidence. The judge will probably be amused and the tenant will be out some money.

Dont forget that the landlord's time is a business asset and he can charge for the tenant using it up for nonsensical reasons.

 

[dj1]

Ahhhhh but thats what lawyers are for.

Find one that is a cat lover who will defend the cat as if it was a human being...I love it!


And why shouldn't a landlord after a 5 year rental, cut this person a break, and wait till she moves out to show the property and avoid any problems...it seems small price to pay to avoid any possible disasterous outcomes.

I mean we are only talking about a lousy 6 weeks...

[Edited by dj1 on 03-20-2001 at 08:08 AM]

 

[LL]

Lawyers don't take cats as clients. For one thing, they don't pay. Talk about having a fool for a client.

Besides, just having a lawyer who is "willing to defend the cat as if it was a human being" isn't enough. I have no problem in court with lawyers who don't make sense. The judges don't think much of them, either.

In the end, even a human being such as the tenant doesn't have the right to refuse entry to the landlord when he has given proper notice, because its the law. No lawyer can change that.

Perhaps a landlord might give a favorite tenant a break and negotiate his schedule a little. But 6 weeks of being empty, lets see, at $1500 per month, thats over $2000. Do you think that the tenant would be willing to pay that? If his cat means that much to him, then ...

I can share a story with you.
I get stupid letters from lawyers all of the time. Once, I got such an arrogant letter, from a lawyer, demanding to know why I did not renew his client's lease, that it was illegal and retaliatory, besides I did this and that, and he's going to do this to me and that to me. I wrote back that I charged $150/hour for writing letters in answer to inquiries such as his, please forward $300 in advance for me to begin the letter. I don't have to tell you what happened.

Similarly, I would look for some way to charge the tenant for the time and trouble resulting from a tenant who makes ridiculous demands that he/she is not entitled to. California law says I need to give 24 hours notice of my intention to enter (unless it is not practical to do so) and I am very good about that. Most of my tenants allow me to enter whenever I feel that I need to, but I try to return the courtesy by at least leaving a voice message that I will be coming the next day. Since I don't allow cats at all, this particular problem never comes up for me.

 

[dj1]

Good points but you misunderstood me......

If she gave her 30 day notice to vacate by April 30th, the landlord would have an empty house ...it should sell faster..

Youve read the stories here about agents coming in unannounced and people were in the shower...or naked...

And a cat that is prone to run or worse might be frightened to death, of the strangers...is really a horrible way to end a tenancy.

After all if she gives her 30 day notice the rent is paid til april 30th...so how much is the LL gonna lose anyway, compared to the potential liability ......

I think he should wait until she is out of the house, just out of courtesy.

 

[LL]

An empty house is harder to sell.

If she gives notice, the landlord can fill the vacancy with someone else, temporarily. Not showing the apartment is an expense. The landlord is entitled to show it, probably with 24 hours notice under PA law. To give this up would cost money. It is the tenant's responsibility to cooperate, cat or no cat. The notice should keep her out of the shower when the RE agent is due.

The courtesy you suggest is a big one, especially since there doesn't have to be any problem.

There is no potential liability. The cat is the tenant's complete responsibility.

Millions of tenants cooperate with showing their dwelling, cats, children, showers, work, husbands, boyfriends all notwithstanding. Try discussing it with the landlord. Maybe he is willing to do it in certain hours, or by appointment, even on short notice.

 

[paddler]

more on precious cat

this is fun to watch you two discuss. however, you didn't pay attention. i do not plan to move. i will only move if new buyers ask me to leave.

nobody has mentioned dicussing appointment making with the realtor. perhaps a buyer may look at the properties separately if they must make the first appointment in the morning when i am working.

i'm thinking of discussing the posting of a warning sign on the door with the hired realtor so that other realtors realize the responsibility they take on in entering my apartment.

yes lots of people move with boyfriends, girfriends, husbands showers and knuckle sandwiches, but i don't know many husbands wives or girlfriends or boyfriends that sneak/run out and get lost forever or worse yet stolen....wait a minute maybe that's a topic for another forum.

by the way, why do you assume I am a female and my landlady is a he...

 

[LL]

I mentioned appointment making with the realtor. I am operating in the dark, since I don't know anything about PA law being different from other states. You really should go and look it up.

You can only really discuss appointment making and "warnings" with you own landlord and maybe the landlord's realtor. You don't know who else may be coming.

By the way, how do these other realtors get into the house? Do they have a key? Who gave it to them? That's the person that you have to talk to, and it may be your landlord's realtor. But to know what to say, you have to know PA law on the subject.

Let's suppose that PA law allows landlord (or agent) to enter on 24 hours notice. You should advise landlord (and that he advise his agent(s)) that without this notice you will not admit anyone. Ask please to make an appointment, although they don't have to.

If someone gives notice, then you cannot refuse no matter how tasty your knuckle sandwich may be. If they gave proper notice, they are not taking on any responsibility in entering your apartment. Don't let dj's stories lead you on.

That includes responsibility for your cat. If the cat is really the issue, then maybe you should look into other arrangements for the cat until this business is over.

The cat really is irrelevant. Not to you, of course, but to the legal framework in which this is going on. Your convenience is also important to you but, under the assumption we have made about PA law, it is not relevant to the issue of under what circumstances can the landlord (or his agents) enter the dwelling.

Your best bet is to work personally with the landlord and the realtor. Ask for appointments, a sign on the door may be a good idea, but not a warning sign. You could say, No showing without advance notice, please call xxx-xxxx for appointment. And ask the realtor to control other RE agents, before giving them the key.

Personal relations are the most important part of being successful in the RE business. It allows you to go beyond the law in getting what you want or need. Of course, that works better if you are a female.


[Edited by LL on 03-20-2001 at 06:26 PM]