Pension order

[Sokols]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
went to court yesterday to settle. We have been legally separated in CA 1/29/2009. I gave the docs with that date and $ amount in my pension lump sum buyout. The defense attorney said that the pension is based on the current value at the time of settlement not the separation date. Is this true? Also on my list of items to remove from the house. What happens if some of those items have been taken by my husband? Is the transaction void or what can i do to get those items that he took?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
went to court yesterday to settle. We have been legally separated in CA 1/29/2009. I gave the docs with that date and $ amount in my pension lump sum buyout. The defense attorney said that the pension is based on the current value at the time of settlement not the separation date. Is this true? Also on my list of items to remove from the house. What happens if some of those items have been taken by my husband? Is the transaction void or what can i do to get those items that he took?

There are no court orders yet regarding property division? If not, then absolutely do NOT agree that the pension should be divided as of now. Insist that it be divided as of the date of separation and if no agreement is reached, then let it go in front of the judge and let the judge decide. (assuming that the value of the pension is sufficient to warrant the extra legal expense).

If you haven't yet agreed on what items in the house are yours, (or the judge hasn't made orders yet) then that one is a little murky. It depends on what was done with the items and why.

If there are already court orders/agreements signed off on by the judge, then those orders/agreements are enforceable only as written.

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
went to court yesterday to settle. We have been legally separated in CA 1/29/2009. I gave the docs with that date and $ amount in my pension lump sum buyout. The defense attorney said that the pension is based on the current value at the time of settlement not the separation date. Is this true?

There's no definite rule. Dragging things out for years creates problems.

There's a tendency to simply say that you should not agree to current value and should insist on 1/2 of the value at the time of separation. I believe that only applies if ex is the one who caused the delay. If you're both responsible for the delay or if the delay was simply unavoidable (due to required waiting periods, for example), you should both suffer equally.

Look at it this way. Say the account was worth $100 K in 2009 and is worth $80 K now and that it was all marital. You'd get $50 K if it were divided in 2009 or $40 K if it was divided today. But that $50 K that you'd have gotten in 2009 would probably have remained in an IRA account and would have dropped to $40 K (give or take) today. So if you take $50 K, then ex would only get $30 K - or 40% less than you - even though you should each be entitled to half. Is that fair?

Let's play it out. Let's say your ex was here asking the same question. If we tell you to insist on the earlier amount and tell your ex to insist on the later amount, then we'd be giving different advice to the two different parties. I prefer to give advice that's fair to both parties.

 

[LdiJ]

There's no definite rule. Dragging things out for years creates problems.

There's a tendency to simply say that you should not agree to current value and should insist on 1/2 of the value at the time of separation. I believe that only applies if ex is the one who caused the delay. If you're both responsible for the delay or if the delay was simply unavoidable (due to required waiting periods, for example), you should both suffer equally.

Look at it this way. Say the account was worth $100 K in 2009 and is worth $80 K now and that it was all marital. You'd get $50 K if it were divided in 2009 or $40 K if it was divided today. But that $50 K that you'd have gotten in 2009 would probably have remained in an IRA account and would have dropped to $40 K (give or take) today. So if you take $50 K, then ex would only get $30 K - or 40% less than you - even though you should each be entitled to half. Is that fair?

Let's play it out. Let's say your ex was here asking the same question. If we tell you to insist on the earlier amount and tell your ex to insist on the later amount, then we'd be giving different advice to the two different parties. I prefer to give advice that's fair to both parties.

I admit that is a good point if the value of the account has decreased...which is quite possible in today's economic climate.

However, I doubt that is the case in this particular scenario, because otherwise the OP would be all for the change.

 

[Sokols]

penison and settlement _

I need help quickly. The Los Angeles court system and delays with court dates caused this to be dragged out 2 1/2 years by no fault on either side. We have been in court 5 times. We had a 10am appt. and we ended up settling with our attorneys in the hallways while waiting for our time once again. Forms were filled out and penciled in with amounts and terms. We signed those . I don't know if they need to by typed out and signed again to be official or not?. We brought what we had in front of the judge but the divorce won't be final till August. I question the respondents attorneys judgement for my pension saying it needs to be the current value today at $105K vs. the time of separation 54K. My husband has no 401k or pension to be split. Its this correct or can I fight the date in terms of the pension price? Also I believe the settlement calculations which were done manually in the hallway are added wrong or there is missing information I am not aware of. After recalculation the terms I believe I am shorted 30K. Can I dispute this amount or is this a done deal? PLEASE HELP

 

[mistoffolees]

I need help quickly. The Los Angeles court system and delays with court dates caused this to be dragged out 2 1/2 years by no fault on either side. We have been in court 5 times. We had a 10am appt. and we ended up settling with our attorneys in the hallways while waiting for our time once again. Forms were filled out and penciled in with amounts and terms. We signed those . I don't know if they need to by typed out and signed again to be official or not?. We brought what we had in front of the judge but the divorce won't be final till August. I question the respondents attorneys judgement for my pension saying it needs to be the current value today at $105K vs. the time of separation 54K. My husband has no 401k or pension to be split. Its this correct or can I fight the date in terms of the pension price? Also I believe the settlement calculations which were done manually in the hallway are added wrong or there is missing information I am not aware of. After recalculation the terms I believe I am shorted 30K. Can I dispute this amount or is this a done deal? PLEASE HELP

I would argue that the marital accumulation ended at the time of separation. Anything accumulated after the separation should be separate property.

The amount at the time of separation should be divided....PLUS any increase in value of that portion.

If there are mathematical errors, you are, of course, able to ask that they be corrected.

 

[Ohiogal]

I would argue that the marital accumulation ended at the time of separation. Anything accumulated after the separation should be separate property.

The amount at the time of separation should be divided....PLUS any increase in value of that portion.

If there are mathematical errors, you are, of course, able to ask that they be corrected.

Except for the fact that there was NOT a legal separation agreement filed with the court. In fact she signed that in the hall and that can be binding especially if said agreement was put on the record and/or the judge signed it. Changing her mind doesn't void the agreement.

 

[mistoffolees]

Except for the fact that there was NOT a legal separation agreement filed with the court. In fact she signed that in the hall and that can be binding especially if said agreement was put on the record and/or the judge signed it. Changing her mind doesn't void the agreement.

Yes, if she signed an agreement, they can probably enforce that. It wasn't clear from her rambling.

I would argue that what I posted would be a fair division if there was nothing previously in place, but that doesn't allow her to change something she already agreed to.