Pilot's refusal to submit logbook to FAA for inspection.

[GluteusMaximus]

Ohio,

CFR 61.51 states that a pilot must allow inspection of his logbook upon request from the FAA.

Question: If a pilot has been served a letter of investigation, is he protected via the "Pilot's Bill Of Rights" from having to provide his logbook to the FAA if the FAA has requested it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The pilots bill of rights is an entitlement of information to support the contents of your log. It is not a protection against presenting it for inspection.

 

[quincy]

Ohio,

CFR 61.51 states that a pilot must allow inspection of his logbook upon request from the FAA.

Question: If a pilot has been served a letter of investigation, is he protected via the "Pilot's Bill Of Rights" from having to provide his logbook to the FAA if the FAA has requested it?

Thanks in advance.

The answer to your question is no, the pilot is not protected from having to provide his logbook.

If you are under investigation by the FAA, you are not required to respond to the letter of investigation and you have no duty to say anything to the FAA. In fact, anything you say to the FAA can be used against you. The NTSB has primary authority, not the FAA.

HOWEVER, there are exceptions to responding to the FAA and one exception is when there are in-flight emergencies, one is with your FAA certificates which must be presented upon request, and another is for logbooks which must be presented for review upon request of the FAA.

From Frank J. Reno v National Transportation Board; FAA: "Overall safety in air commerce and the public interest require that FAA regulators dealing with record-keeping not be compromised," and from Administrator v Newman: "... a policy of leniency toward record-keeping [violations] inevitably encourages carelessness ... to the derogation of safety in air transportation."

If you are under investigation, the FAA should have informed you of the charges or the reasons for any actions being taken against you (except in an emergency). You have the right to not only contest the actions but you can also ask to speak with the FAA attorney handling the investigation. You should also seek help from your own attorney, though, before making any statements or taking any actions that could work against you.

There are forum members who are pilots. They will probably respond to your question, as well - and they will correct any misinformation I may have inadvertently provided to you here.

 

[Zigner]

I would suggest that you explore a program such as the Pilot Protection Service offered by AOPA. I'm sure there are other, similar programs out there.

 

[FlyingRon]

I would recommend that he is well past the paltry consult benefit the that AOPA legal protection program offers and he skip that. AOPA services are rarely good deals for anybody other than AOPA himself.

The whole point of the log books is that the FAA can demand to inspect them. They are what you do to show compliance with the regulations. If the FAA didn't have the right to inspect them, why would you have to keep them? While except in certain circumstances (student pilots) you're not required to carry your logs with you, the FAA can ask you to present them at a reasonable time for inspection. Failure to do so can result in enforcement action independent of whatever else they're concerned about.

The Pilot's Bill of Rights in this situation is little more than Miranda. It requires them to notify you (in writing) that the investigation is being conducted.

 

[Zigner]

I would recommend that he is well past the paltry consult benefit the that AOPA legal protection program offers and he skip that. AOPA services are rarely good deals for anybody other than AOPA himself.

I disagree - the consultation value alone can pay for the plan, if needed.

It's like any other insurance. If you don't need it, it's a waste of money...but when you need it, you wish you had it.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

I have to agree with FlyingRon regarding AOPA. Never has anything been so over rated, especially their "Legal Services Plan".

Because the FAA has such a reputation for being abusive and complete douchebags, I decided to hire an attorney who specializes in aviation regs & law.

Thanks for your input everyone.

 

[Silverplum]

I have to agree with FlyingRon regarding AOPA. Never has anything been so over rated, especially their "Legal Services Plan".

Because the FAA has such a reputation for being abusive and complete douchebags, I decided to hire an attorney who specializes in aviation regs & law.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Nice talk.

 

[FlyingRon]

I disagree - the consultation value alone can pay for the plan, if needed.

It's like any other insurance. If you don't need it, it's a waste of money...but when you need it, you wish you had it.

If you need it, it's inadequate. For $99 a year you get 30 minutes of consultation time. Tell me what that does for you.
You have to have a very specific situation to get the real coverage. It's like those policies they sold to you at school when I was a kid that pays $25,000 if I lost an eye and a hand both at the same time.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

What is or isn't in the log that you don't want them to see?

 

[FlyingRon]

What is or isn't in the log that you don't want them to see?

You should never put anything in the log you don't want the FAA to see. They'll look at it over the course of your flying career.
The only things you are required to put in the logs are the things that show you meet the training, currency, and other regulatory requirements.
If you want to fly drugs from El Paso to Detroit, you are free not to log that if you don't need to count that currency.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

You should never put anything in the log you don't want the FAA to see. They'll look at it over the course of your flying career.
The only things you are required to put in the logs are the things that show you meet the training, currency, and other regulatory requirements.
If you want to fly drugs from El Paso to Detroit, you are free not to log that if you don't need to count that currency.

And if the OP followed your advice, he would/should have no issue handing over the log. Yet ...

 

[Zigner]

And if the OP followed your advice, he would/should have no issue handing over the log. Yet ...

There are myriad laws relating to aviation. One could easily violate the law in a trivial manner without even knowing it. Why would you advise someone to open up his logs for full inspection without it being required?

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

There are myriad laws relating to aviation. One could easily violate the law in a trivial manner without even knowing it. Why would you advise someone to open up his logs for full inspection without it being required?

It IS required. I'm trying to help the OP by getting a clue as to what the skeleton in that particular closet looks like.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

It IS required. I'm trying to help the OP by getting a clue as to what the skeleton in that particular closet looks like.

It's clear that you're not trying to help anyone but instead drawing conclusions that their must be something to hide.