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PLEASE HELP- child illegally downloaded movie

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catwoman71

Junior Member
I just found out that my minor son (16 yr old) used torrent software to download an innapropriate movie. He is a very bright kid, straight A student, but he really screwed up here. He said that some guys at school told him about the software, so he wanted to try it - only he didn't think anything about copyrights. He feels awful about what he did and since deleted the file and the software.

Besides having to punish my son for this terrible choice he made - I now have to worry about legal action. I got a letter from the copyright holder through my internet service provider stating what happened (which is how I found out, by the way) and that we can "settle" with them for a $200 fee. My husband and I had no idea that our son had done this and definitely did not give him permission to use our computer in that way. However, my husband would like to go ahead and pay the settlement fee and have this go away. My concern is that paying the settlement fee won't be all there is to it. The person I spoke with at my internet service provider told me that sometimes even when you settle, they still go after people for more. Is that legal? How should we proceed? We want to do the right thing, I'm just really worried about the fact that this may be an irreputable company and that they will try to monkey around with us even after settling. Please offer any guidance. Forgot to mention, we live in Illinois - if that matters. Thank you.

P.S. forgot to mention the letter from the copyright holder says that we have until January 25, 2013 to settle.
 
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catwoman71

Junior Member
a little more info

I logged into the settlement site. It is called "Copyright Settlements". It looks legitimate and it states the following

CEG TEK International (CEG) has tracked and authenticated the following unauthorized use(s) listed below. We are offering you a settlement that is significantly lower than the expenses, fees and substantial monetary damages associated with litigation. Upon settling you will instantly receive a full & unconditional release of liability. The text of liability release is available for review by clicking here.

Can I really trust the "liability release" that they say we will have? Thank you!
Oh, also - I found out my son wasn't completely honest with me and that there were a few more files I found on the computer. I have deleted them. I have not received any notice about them. If I pay this one settlement (which I do want to do - my son did make the download) will it open the floodgates to more of these settlement letters? I'm really freaked out because my husband and are completely broke living paycheck to paycheck and do not have the money to pay for all of this.


I just found out that my minor son (16 yr old) used torrent software to download an innapropriate movie. He is a very bright kid, straight A student, but he really screwed up here. He said that some guys at school told him about the software, so he wanted to try it - only he didn't think anything about copyrights. He feels awful about what he did and since deleted the file and the software.

Besides having to punish my son for this terrible choice he made - I now have to worry about legal action. I got a letter from the copyright holder through my internet service provider stating what happened (which is how I found out, by the way) and that we can "settle" with them for a $200 fee. My husband and I had no idea that our son had done this and definitely did not give him permission to use our computer in that way. However, my husband would like to go ahead and pay the settlement fee and have this go away. My concern is that paying the settlement fee won't be all there is to it. The person I spoke with at my internet service provider told me that sometimes even when you settle, they still go after people for more. Is that legal? How should we proceed? We want to do the right thing, I'm just really worried about the fact that this may be an irreputable company and that they will try to monkey around with us even after settling. Please offer any guidance. Forgot to mention, we live in Illinois - if that matters. Thank you.

P.S. forgot to mention the letter from the copyright holder says that we have until January 25, 2013 to settle.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I logged into the settlement site. It is called "Copyright Settlements". It looks legitimate and it states the following

CEG TEK International (CEG) has tracked and authenticated the following unauthorized use(s) listed below. We are offering you a settlement that is significantly lower than the expenses, fees and substantial monetary damages associated with litigation. Upon settling you will instantly receive a full & unconditional release of liability. The text of liability release is available for review by clicking here.

Can I really trust the "liability release" that they say we will have? Thank you!
Oh, also - I found out my son wasn't completely honest with me and that there were a few more files I found on the computer. I have deleted them. I have not received any notice about them. If I pay this one settlement (which I do want to do - my son did make the download) will it open the floodgates to more of these settlement letters? I'm really freaked out because my husband and are completely broke living paycheck to paycheck and do not have the money to pay for all of this.
Right now they do not know who you are. They only have your ISP address which is why you got the information from your provider. If you pay the settlement, that will absolutely identify you to them. I recommend finding out if your service provider intends to identify you to them, and then I would consult with a local attorney (not hire one, just talk to one and pay for 30 minutes of their time) before doing that.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I logged into the settlement site. It is called "Copyright Settlements". It looks legitimate and it states the following

CEG TEK International (CEG) has tracked and authenticated the following unauthorized use(s) listed below. We are offering you a settlement that is significantly lower than the expenses, fees and substantial monetary damages associated with litigation. Upon settling you will instantly receive a full & unconditional release of liability. The text of liability release is available for review by clicking here.

Can I really trust the "liability release" that they say we will have? Thank you!
Oh, also - I found out my son wasn't completely honest with me and that there were a few more files I found on the computer. I have deleted them. I have not received any notice about them. If I pay this one settlement (which I do want to do - my son did make the download) will it open the floodgates to more of these settlement letters? I'm really freaked out because my husband and are completely broke living paycheck to paycheck and do not have the money to pay for all of this.
Thank you for starting your own thread, catwoman71. It is preferred on this site that a poster ask their own questions in a new thread instead of tacking questions on to the end of a very old thread, especially when the old thread is a long one, the new questions do not relate in a meaningful way to the old questions, and when the questions involve a different state.

I agree with LdiJ that you should probably speak with an attorney in your area for a review of the facts and to have the attorney look over the notice of infringement you received from your ISP and CEG TEK International. With a January 25 deadline to settle, time is short, so I would start contacting attorneys now.

Settling now will allow for you to keep your identifying information relatively private. An early settlement tends to preserve your anonymity by preventing your personal identifying information from becoming part of a public court record.

If your ISP has been subpoenaed, it has no choice but to release your identifying account information, or be in contempt of a court order. Once your account information is released, you become a named defendant in the copyright infringement action.

Before considering any settlement, you want to make sure FIRST that the entity claiming infringement has standing to sue (owns rights in the film) and that the film in question was registered prior to the date of infringement (entitling the company to collect statutory damages) and that you are, in fact, being sued. The entity suing you should have evidence enough to support the infringement claim against you (tracking records).

Until a complaint has been filed against you (or a "John Doe" you) and/or a subpoena issued for your ISP, there is no court order compelling your ISP to release your identifying information, and there is no legal requirement and you are under no legal obligation to pay any settlement demand. Once you are sued, you may feel under more pressure to settle - although, once sued, the settlement demand amount of $200 offered before litigation will probably increase substantially to cover the added costs that will be incurred by the copyright holder. It is something to consider.

If the entity does not have standing to sue and/or if the film was not registered in a timely fashion, you should not have to pay any settlement amount at all. Late registration would only entitle a copyright holder to profits realized or actual damages, and these are generally difficult or impossible to prove. Very few infringers of your son's type has made any money off the illegal download, other than the minimal cost of the film itself.

It is important to note, however, that these factors (no standing, untimely registration) rarely exist in an infringement suit, but they are important to check out on the off-chance you can escape the suit without paying anything.

Agreeing to settle the infringement with an agreement containing a confidentiality clause will enable you to maintain your anonymity (preventing your name from being connected publicly with the illegal download of a pornographic film) and it will also prevent you from having to pay what could be a substantially higher amount later, should the matter go to court. You may even be able to negotiate for an amount lower than the $200 figure, although that is generally the bottom line in these copyright infringement suits. The $200 is the lowest amount that would be awarded in court against a defendant for "innocent" infringement (those who infringe without intending to) and it is only awarded at the court's discretion (in other words, it is not a guarantee). The plaintiff, if the work was registered in a timely fashion, is entitled to statutory damages of between $750 and $30,000 per infringement otherwise.

Any agreement you decide to make with the plaintiff should be reviewed by an attorney prior to paying a settlement demand amount, to protect you from any additional claims filed against you for the same film. However, if your son illegally downloaded more than one movie, you may find (and probably will find) that you have to pay for each film. If the films are owned by the same company, you may be able to negotiate one payment for all, but you should plan on paying more than just $200, especially if the illegal downloads were films owned by several different companies. There can be some serious dollars involved with the download of several different movies.

The attorney you see will start by reviewing the court documents, if a suit has been filed. The attorney will make sure that the company has rights in the film and is legally entitled to compensation. The attorney can determine after a review of all of the facts if you can mount a winning defense against the infringement claim or if it is wiser to settle. If there is no legitimate defense, the attorney can generally work with the plaintiff to get you the lowest settlement amount (this may very well be the $200 offered). And the attorney can help to ensure that your identities are protected, with an agreement that contains a confidentiality clause.

Finally, I know there are several websites, most of which were started by copyright infringers, that claim that all demand letters are extortion, that all copyright holders sending settlement letters are trolls, and that people should not pay any amounts demanded because the notices of infringement are scams. I have not encountered nor heard of any copyright infringement scams, trolls or extortionists - just copyright holders trying to be compensated for the infringement of their works.

So, I do not intend to argue here about trolls, scams, extortionists or the wrongs or rights of copyright infringement actions. There are plenty of other sites for that. If you are concerned about who sent you a notice and why, however, you should consult with an attorney in your area and have the attorney address your concerns.

A copyright infringer always has the option of not paying what a copyright holder is asking in the way of settlement, and the copyright infringer can always hope the copyright holder will just go away. But this could wind up being a very costly option to take.

Again, I recommend that you contact an attorney in Illinois who is well-versed in copyright law, and go from there.

Good luck.
 
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catwoman71

Junior Member
thank you

Thanks for your detailed response, I really appreciate it. Although, based on what you've said, I agree it would be good to talk to an attorney - I just don't have the money. As it is it will be a struggle just to come up with the $200. So I think what we will do is just go ahead and pay the settlement fee for the infringement that my son made. When I spoke to my ISP they told me that they would only give out our information if they got a subpoena, which they had not as of yet. I just don't want it to even go that far. We'll just have to wait and see if we receive more notices about the other files I found on the computer. According to my son, they weren't actually movies, just short clips - so maybe that is why we didn't get notices about them? I just hate this whole situation - hate that my son downloaded indecent material, hate that since he's a kid he didn't know about copyright infringement, and hate that now I have to deal with the repercussions. Thanks again for your help.
 

RRevak

Senior Member
Poke around the internet for a while or contact your local bar association for names of reputable attorneys in your area. Then start making phone calls. A lot of attorneys are willing to do free or low cost consultations for 15-30 min depending on the attorney. As Quincy said, since this issue may have the potential to become much larger, I wouldn't walk into this without at least running it by an attorney.
 

catwoman71

Junior Member
another question, then

I have never had to deal with an attorney before and frankly am scared to do it. How will it benefit us to talk to one, assuming they will talk to us for free or at low cost? Since my son admitted that he did download the file, we will have to pay regardless, right? And if the other files he downloaded were also a copyright violation (we don't know that right now), we will have to pay for those as well, correct? (the files my son downloaded were all on the same date and we have only received the one notice). At the present time, we have only one settlement offer for the one file. It seems that paying the $200 settlement fee will be the cheapest way to take care of this. Is there a reason to not pay the settlement? I'm still so confused.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I have never had to deal with an attorney before and frankly am scared to do it. How will it benefit us to talk to one, assuming they will talk to us for free or at low cost? Since my son admitted that he did download the file, we will have to pay regardless, right? And if the other files he downloaded were also a copyright violation (we don't know that right now), we will have to pay for those as well, correct? (the files my son downloaded were all on the same date and we have only received the one notice). At the present time, we have only one settlement offer for the one file. It seems that paying the $200 settlement fee will be the cheapest way to take care of this. Is there a reason to not pay the settlement? I'm still so confused.
Yes, there is a reason to not pay the settlement. The reason is that paying the settlement is admitting guilt in a situation where you may never get actually identified by the company attempting to get money from you. You should never be scared to consult with an attorney. The attorney may look things over and advise you not to settle unless your ISP is actually subpeona's by the company. Or, if the attorney knows that the company is on the up and up, they may advise you to settle. We cannot know for sure what the attorney will advise you to do.

What we do know is that right now that company has no idea who you are. If you settle this one, they will know exactly who you are and you will have given them all of the info that they need to come after you more fully on the other downloads.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I have never had to deal with an attorney before and frankly am scared to do it. How will it benefit us to talk to one, assuming they will talk to us for free or at low cost? Since my son admitted that he did download the file, we will have to pay regardless, right? And if the other files he downloaded were also a copyright violation (we don't know that right now), we will have to pay for those as well, correct? (the files my son downloaded were all on the same date and we have only received the one notice). At the present time, we have only one settlement offer for the one file. It seems that paying the $200 settlement fee will be the cheapest way to take care of this. Is there a reason to not pay the settlement? I'm still so confused.
I agree with both RRevak and LdiJ that it is important for you to have all of the facts reviewed by an attorney before you send off any money to CEG TEK International, based on nothing more than an emailed notice to settle.

While I can understand the cost-savings for all parties in having a pre-litigation settlement, allowing for the $200 settlement figure as opposed to the higher amount usually demanded (typically $2000 to $5000) to help cover court costs, there are greater risks involved with this type of settlement. For one thing, no court has seen the evidence held by the plaintiff to support the infringement action, which would be the case if a pre-discovery suit were filed for the purposes of obtaining subpoenas on ISPs.

It is true that you may have to pay for an attorney's review which increases your costs, and you may have to pay more for the infringement if you miss the settlement deadline. But you could also find with this review that the movie company does not have adequate evidence of the download, that the movie was not registered prior to the infringement, that the company does not have proper standing to sue, or that there is some other quirk that works as a defense to the infringement. It may also be possible with an attorney's help to negotiate for a one-price-for-all, should it be discovered that the other downloads were owned by the same copyright holder.

You are aware of what your son did - that he downloaded a movie or movies without paying for them. You and your husband are to be applauded that you want to "make it right" by paying the copyright holder(s) for rights-infringement. And, as I said earlier, I have not yet run across a scam where someone is claiming to be a copyright holder when they are not.

If you decide to settle prior to having a suit filed against you, you will want to make sure that any release of liability agreement covers all that it needs to cover. Again, an attorney can be important to ensure your rights are protected.

Here is a link to the Illinois State Bar Association site, which can help you to find attorneys in your area who may be able to assist you for no-or-low cost: http://www.isba.org.

You may also find help through the nonprofit organization, Electronic Frontier Foundation: http://www.eff.org.

Whatever route you decide to take, I wish you good luck.
 
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catwoman71

Junior Member
one more quick question

Thanks again, all the information has been helpful. One more thing I would like to know... I assume that the notice we got was because of my son actually downloading the illicit movie. Is dowloading the film the only time you are infringing on the copyright? Or if he watched it another time (before we found out and had everything removed) would we be liable for infringing on the copyright again? Thank you.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Have you spoken with an attorney yet, catwoman71? You really should go over all facts of the downloads with an attorney in your area. If your son only downloaded a single movie, it is this single download that will be the subject of any infringement settlement or lawsuit.

If your computer has a file-sharing feature and it was not disabled, though, it is possible that the illegally downloaded movie was distributed to others without your knowledge. Distribution of illegal downloads is a more serious offense. But I imagine you would have been notified of this already.

Again, I urge you to speak with an attorney in your area before the settlement date of January 25 comes and goes.

Good luck.
 

catwoman71

Junior Member
That was a cute video. I just wish I could could get an answer to my question. I've contacted a local law office and they have still not returned my call. I've contacted the company that sent the settlement letter, they haven't called me back. Everyone else I talk to says just ignore the letters. I don't feel like that's right, either. My son admitted downloading the file, so we deleted it and paid the settlement. Since I now have a second letter with a different day and time of "infringement" - I'm just so confused. The date on this second notice is the same date that my son says he deleted the file, which was the day before we saw the first notice. I just want to know if we can get this second notice from him accessing the file - opening it, deleting it, etc. I know he did not download the same file a second time. That would be ignorant since he already had it downloaded. My family is swimming in financial hardship and this problem is just adding insult to injury. I know you have said I should see an attorney, well obviously they aren't going to answer my question for free - or they would have called me back, and we do not have any money to pay for a lawyer. I just need help. I need to know if it is infringement for accessing the file that you already downloaded on your computer - or is it the act of downloading it. My son said he did not have it set up to share with anyone. If it is illegal for each time the file would even happen to be opened on the computer, then I will find the money and pay the second settlement. I just need to know. I do know one thing, the file was deleted on the date of the second notice. Therefore if I get any other settlement letters for that same film after that date, then I know they are bogus.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You need to speak with an Illinois attorney, catwoman. Try the following:

Illinois Bar Association http://www.isba.org

Legal Assistance referrals through the Attorney General's Office http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/about/probono.html

Illinois Law School Directory with links to schools http://www.hg.org/law-schools-illinois.asp

Electronic Frontier Foundation http://www.eff.org

Then, if all else fails, put "Illinois free legal help" into your search bar and see what pops up and start making phone calls.

The copyright infringement is the illegal download(s). I cannot tell you what the company sending you the settlement notices has in the way of supporting evidence. You need to have an attorney in your area review all of the facts. What you say to the attorney will be privileged. I would definitely not continue to admit to illegal downloads here on this public forum or to the company demanding money.

Buy an hour of an attorney's time if you cannot find an attorney able to review the matter for free, and then follow the advice and direction of this attorney.

I wish you much good luck.
 

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