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stargazer2

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?Kansas I have a 19 year old daughter who had a baby out of wedlock. The baby is 4 months old now. My daughter does not live with the father. She has retained control of the baby and has insurance for the baby. She lives at home with us her parents. This man never offered to help with pregnancy in any way. Said the child was not his.
After the child was born he suddenly became interested. My daughter moved in with him to try to stay with her daughter, but almost starved to death. During a visit today he refused to give the baby back to her. She fought to get the baby back and he called the law on her and had her arrested. She was coerced into signing some kind of custody papers at the hospital, but he has not had a paternity test nor any kind of court orders. They are of course not married.

My husband and I have been building a home one hour and a half from here for two years. It was the plan always to move there. We are on the Kansas side of the Kansas Missouri line. We are about two weeks away from moving.
We don't know what to do. If we leave my daughter will have no place to live if she gets the baby back. She has not taken a job because we were moving and she knew this. We will be living in Missouri. This man was arrested last week for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. He is an unfit parent.
What can we do to help our daughter?
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Did he sign an acknowledgement of paternity or is that what was signed today?
If she had unquestionable custody, then she would not have been arrested for preventing the abduction of her daughter, both parents are less than fit at this point. Where is the child? If the father has the child call CPS and expain his recent arrect, however it is the weekend now, a 3 day holiday weekend. If your daughter moves to MO without the court's permission she could lose custody of the child.

I strongly suggest your daughter consult a family law attorney or legal aid first thing Tuesday Morning and file for custody and child support, paternity if it has not been establshed. Find out what these custody papers were? She may have to apply for welfare or get a job if she plans on staying in Kansas to be with her child. She should also call the domestic violence hotline for counseling and assistance with getting safe shelter.
Kansas Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources. Statewide hotline: 888-363-2287 Kansas Coalition Against Sexual & Domestic Violence ...
http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/states/ksdv.shtml
Domestic Violence Shelters
http://www.sboard.org/SHELTERS/KS.HTM
 

stargazer2

Junior Member
Please need help!!

Kansas. At the hospital she was asked to sign papers listing him as the father.
She was coerced by the hospital to sign without an attorney which I voiced a complaint about. They said if she didn't sign they wouldn't release the baby.
No paternity has been established. She went for visitation ,and he took the baby at his house and told her to leave. She wouldn't and he called the police on her. He has no rights to this baby that have been established except this paper. The child is living with us. We are supporting this child. The police officer who came is a friend of his. This was worked out ahead of time. She has done nothing to exempt her right of motherhood.

She would be working and supporting this child except we are moving. He knew this when he first met her. There was never any question we were moving and she would go with us. He sees that now we are almost ready to go he can cause enough trouble to stop us.

My daughter is not an unfit parent. She made a mistake and got envolved with the wrong man. She could of ask for child support and custody but has done without to avoid giving him time alone with the child. She had to file for state assistance which he told her to do. He had insurance and refused to help her. She had the worst medical care possible and was passing out during her pregnancy. He told her to go get state assistance to feed the baby and she wouldn't because they have the right to administer tests on the baby such as take blood at will. She didn't want the baby to be treated like that. My daughter has had total responsibility for this child. She gets up at all hours and is exhausted. He was busy out getting arrested. She is a victim!!
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
stargazer2 said:
Kansas. At the hospital she was asked to sign papers listing him as the father.
She was coerced by the hospital to sign without an attorney which I voiced a complaint about. They said if she didn't sign they wouldn't release the baby.
No paternity has been established. She went for visitation ,and he took the baby at his house and told her to leave. She wouldn't and he called the police on her. He has no rights to this baby that have been established except this paper. The child is living with us. We are supporting this child. The police officer who came is a friend of his. This was worked out ahead of time. She has done nothing to exempt her right of motherhood.

She would be working and supporting this child except we are moving. He knew this when he first met her. There was never any question we were moving and she would go with us. He sees that now we are almost ready to go he can cause enough trouble to stop us.

My daughter is not an unfit parent. She made a mistake and got envolved with the wrong man. She could of ask for child support and custody but has done without to avoid giving him time alone with the child. She had to file for state assistance which he told her to do. He had insurance and refused to help her. She had the worst medical care possible and was passing out during her pregnancy. He told her to go get state assistance to feed the baby and she wouldn't because they have the right to administer tests on the baby such as take blood at will. She didn't want the baby to be treated like that. My daughter has had total responsibility for this child. She gets up at all hours and is exhausted. He was busy out getting arrested. She is a victim!!
You MUST get your daughter an attorney quickly...the attorney can file emergency paperwork to hopefully compel dad to return the child to her. However she needs to move on this very quickly.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
What the hell? Take your daughter down to the state police and file kidnapping charges on this punk.

He has NO LEGAL RIGHTS to keep the child until a court grants them.
 

CJane

Senior Member
stargazer2 said:
He had insurance and refused to help her. She had the worst medical care possible and was passing out during her pregnancy. He told her to go get state assistance to feed the baby and she wouldn't because they have the right to administer tests on the baby such as take blood at will. She didn't want the baby to be treated like that. My daughter has had total responsibility for this child. She gets up at all hours and is exhausted. He was busy out getting arrested. She is a victim!!
If she filed for state assistance, and he's listed as the father, doesn't the state attempt to get child support from him?

How was he supposed to 'help' her? If they weren't married, he most likely couldn't put her on his insurance, and even if the child is his, he's under no obligation to put it on his insurance without being ordered to by the court.

What 'tests' is the state authorized to 'perform' if she goes on state aid? I've never heard of that.

Follow every one else's advice and get the child back, but resign yourself to the fact that once paternity is established, if it hasn't been already, that the child might not be allowed to move, and your daughter is going to be dealing with this man for the rest of her life.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
It sounds like she and possibly the father signed an acknowledgement of paternity when at the hospital, instead of DNA test and since she was on state aid, they went after him and he may actually have paternity and some custody already established. The fact that they were always planning on moving to another state doesn't negate his paternal rights. If she didn't want to have a child with him, she should have used protection, if she wanted to be a single mother, they have sperm banks. Someone is going to have to go to court but this will not be settled before it is time to move so they better get another plan.
 

CJane

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
It sounds like she and possibly the father signed an acknowledgement of paternity when at the hospital, instead of DNA test and since she was on state aid, they went after him and he may actually have paternity and some custody already established. The fact that they were always planning on moving to another state doesn't negate his paternal rights. If she didn't want to have a child with him, she should have used protection, if she wanted to be a single mother, they have sperm banks. Someone is going to have to go to court but this will not be settled before it is time to move so they better get another plan.

I thought it sounded like a paternity acknowledgement had been signed, but I'm finding OP's posts to be difficult to weed through. It seemed that she stated that he was NOT established as the father, so I couldn't figure out what the daughter was forced to sign. I'm also finding it more than a little bizarre that the hospital would refuse to release a child because the father was 'unknown' UNLESS the daughter was already on state aid and the father was claiming his rights immediately after birth... even then, it's weird.

If he IS the legal father, absent a court order stating otherwise, doesn't he have as much right to 'keep' the child as the mother does, and so any charges of kidnapping would be false?

And OP, I still think you'd better get used to two things. 1) Your daughter might not be moving with you afterall, especially if she wants to keep her child. 2) For better or for worse, this man is now a part of ALL of your lives, and learning how to get along with him now is in EVERYONE's best interst, particularly the child's.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
CJane said:
I thought it sounded like a paternity acknowledgement had been signed, but I'm finding OP's posts to be difficult to weed through. It seemed that she stated that he was NOT established as the father, so I couldn't figure out what the daughter was forced to sign. I'm also finding it more than a little bizarre that the hospital would refuse to release a child because the father was 'unknown' UNLESS the daughter was already on state aid and the father was claiming his rights immediately after birth... even then, it's weird.
When trailers collide
If he IS the legal father, absent a court order stating otherwise, doesn't he have as much right to 'keep' the child as the mother does, and so any charges of kidnapping would be false?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! An acknowledgement of paternity is not proof of a legal claim to the child. For unmarried parents, that comes from the court.

[/QUOTE]
 

casa

Senior Member
stargazer2 said:
What is the name of your state?Kansas I have a 19 year old daughter who had a baby out of wedlock. The baby is 4 months old now. My daughter does not live with the father. She has retained control of the baby and has insurance for the baby. She lives at home with us her parents. This man never offered to help with pregnancy in any way. Said the child was not his.
After the child was born he suddenly became interested. My daughter moved in with him to try to stay with her daughter, but almost starved to death. During a visit today he refused to give the baby back to her. She fought to get the baby back and he called the law on her and had her arrested. She was coerced into signing some kind of custody papers at the hospital, but he has not had a paternity test nor any kind of court orders. They are of course not married.

My husband and I have been building a home one hour and a half from here for two years. It was the plan always to move there. We are on the Kansas side of the Kansas Missouri line. We are about two weeks away from moving.
We don't know what to do. If we leave my daughter will have no place to live if she gets the baby back. She has not taken a job because we were moving and she knew this. We will be living in Missouri. This man was arrested last week for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. He is an unfit parent.
What can we do to help our daughter?
Signing an acknowledgement of paternity at the hospital is NOT custody. Your facts are askew. Your daughter couldn't sign away 'custody' at the hospital even if she wanted to- the ONLY place custody can be established (aside from the woman who gives birth) is by a judge in court.

The fact that the father's 'friend' was the police officer who came to the home when she tried to retrieve her child, may explain some of the false information she was given. Was your daughter actually arrested? And if so, on what charges? None of what you've said makes sense legally. :confused:

In KS until the father goes to court to establish custody/visitation the mother automatically has custody of the child. Your daughter needs to call the police and ask for an escort to go to the father's home and pick up the child.

Your daughter also needs to file in court to ask permission to move out of state with the family. The father will have the right to contest the move- but since she and the child live with you and that is your family home, it's likely the courts will allow her to move with you. She may be responsible for transportation for the child to visit the father. Being only 2 hours away, this should not be a major problem.

The state is not authorized to conduct any tests on the child without the mother's consent- just because she is on state aid that does not mean her child is a test subject or pin cushion. Where in the world did you get that idea? The closest thing to what you are talking about is immunizations which are required in order for the child to be in various state aid programs- immunizations need to be done for any child whether on state aid or not. Not having immunizations is neglectful and dangerous.

Your daughter does not need an attorney to file for custody. She should do this so that she has the father's visitation and child support court ordered. If she is on state aid, yes the state will pursue the father for repayment since it's his obligation to help support the child and the state is doing it instead.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
CJane said:
I thought it sounded like a paternity acknowledgement had been signed, but I'm finding OP's posts to be difficult to weed through. It seemed that she stated that he was NOT established as the father, so I couldn't figure out what the daughter was forced to sign. I'm also finding it more than a little bizarre that the hospital would refuse to release a child because the father was 'unknown' UNLESS the daughter was already on state aid and the father was claiming his rights immediately after birth... even then, it's weird.

If he IS the legal father, absent a court order stating otherwise, doesn't he have as much right to 'keep' the child as the mother does, and so any charges of kidnapping would be false?

And OP, I still think you'd better get used to two things. 1) Your daughter might not be moving with you afterall, especially if she wants to keep her child. 2) For better or for worse, this man is now a part of ALL of your lives, and learning how to get along with him now is in EVERYONE's best interst, particularly the child's.
Actually, some hospitals, in some jurisdictions will seriously badger a mother to either name the father or allow the father to sign the paternity affidavit. Some hospital social workers will even make threats like that....particularly if medicaid is involved. I have seen it happen. I have even seen social workers flat out lie and state that the child cannot be released from the hospital unless the father is named. Someone who doesn't know any better could easily be cowed into signing paperwork.

However, the OP still needs to get her daughter an attorney ASAP...and get the child back. Emergency orders are needed.
 

CJane

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
Actually, some hospitals, in some jurisdictions will seriously badger a mother to either name the father or allow the father to sign the paternity affidavit. Some hospital social workers will even make threats like that....particularly if medicaid is involved. I have seen it happen. I have even seen social workers flat out lie and state that the child cannot be released from the hospital unless the father is named. Someone who doesn't know any better could easily be cowed into signing paperwork.
Wow. That's just... insane. No wonder we have posters here that have issues with the 'real' father NOT being the one on the BC/Paternity Affidavit. Makes me shake my head.
 

stargazer2

Junior Member
Please help me

My daughter was baggered to sign these papers for paternity. She was on heavy pain meds and not thinking clearly. I even complained about the effects this might have on this child's life later. I even said this wasn't right. This hospital was so stringent thay had a lady come to the car and checked the child restraints when we put the baby in the car. She wasn't happy with it and I thought we were never going to be able to leave the hospital at all. My husband a master mechanic put these restraints in. He has 20 years experience. She has never had and trouble with these restraints since then.

I agree custody will be decided in court. The papers he signed to get her arrested say he is going to sue her for custody, and he wants her to pay for the attorneys fees. He is 30 years old, no car, he wrecked it no insurance on it. Not paid for!! He is 4 months past due on the rent on the place they were living in.l I forgot!! His mother who is taking care of the baby now has a felony for worthless check cashing. He started seeing my daughter when she was 17 and now he is seeing a 16 year old. Does that tell you anything. He can't even sue this girl with nothing like a man. He has to sue her and make her pay for it and take the baby.

We got our daughter out this morning. She is covered with bruises all over her arms and legs. She looks like she has been in a car wreck. He was arrested according to the newspaper for contributing to a child's miscounduct.
He was a 30 year old man out with this 16 year old girl and others underage
drinking and who knows what. This happened last week. I have the court records section.

Would any of you want to leave your child with him????? If this guy was a stand up guy you wouldn't hear a word from us. No child should have to put up with a dad who is doing these kinds of things.

Actually I think that since she didn't establish paternity this made matters worse. She thought if she took him to court and established custody he would get mad and demand to see her alone. So she didn't ask for this. As long as she was there she knew she could protect the baby, or thought so.

Now I wonder after this. This was all a set up!! He took the baby while she was calling police for help at the neighbors house. He went to his work where he had his friend there drive him to his Mom's house. The police refused to tell her where the baby was. She was desperate so she and her neighbor went there to the house. The police came and arrested her for being on private property. All of them were sitting inside looking at her and refused to open the door. In a normal situation this wouldn't even have been handled like this. A normal police officer would of had back up, they would of
each talked to each side, and it would of gotten worked out. It is a weekend folks and nothing gets done until next week. In the meantime he is alone with this baby. If there is something wrong with my daughter why didn't he call the police before now. He doesn't want to pay an attorney. It is easy to make her look bad somehow in light of his recent arrest.

This baby was kidnapped, it was planned, the police are in on it, and it was done when she had no money to even bail herself out. No visiting at the jail over the weekend either. By the way he sent one of his relatives to add to this terror of this abduction to the jail to visit her. She told her she came there to tell her the baby was alright. Doesn't this sound scary?????

She got in to see her too. She is not allowed to speak to her neighbor who is a witness according to the papers whe got when she left jail. Yet this woman who is related to the man who put her there got into jail and was able to see her alone. Imagine having your baby taken from you and the relatives coming
to rub your situation in your face while your hands are tied in jail. That is nuts!!!!!

I wish the state police could get involved. Something is fishy in denmark.
 

stargazer2

Junior Member
Please help me

Yea! Casa!!!! I just read your post!!!! That is what I needed to know!!!!!!!
The mother does have right of custody in this state. How would we get the police to do anything though. He has made her out to be bad after having her arrested.

I don't think they would go do anything. The cop wouldn't even tell her where
the baby was.

Is there a statute on this somewhere????? Thank you for that anyway. That in its self helps just to know that.

There had to be some kind of statute to give custody to someone. Yes he can go to court and try to change that but abduction shouldn't be allowed.

Thank you!!!!


I have a general legal question???? If you are arrested and never read your rights can your case be thrown out of court??????? If so, are there any ciscumstances where this would not be true????? Just a question. Thanks!!!!
 

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