Pool pump manufacturer not honoring warranty

[Sparky9684]

Arizona

I recently spent over $4,000 for new pool equipment and additional pool work and labor. I purchased the equipment direct from a local pool supply company and have the itemized receipt. I paid the installer for all the work and he provided me with an invoice for everything. The installer has been doing pool remodeling and pump/equipment installation for years.

The pool pump immediately began making a loud noise both during starting and stopping. The manufacturer agrees that this is not normal and it needs to be looked at. In order to receive a warranty service call, the following criteria must be met (taken directly from the manufacturer's warranty terms and website):

* Qualified installation required
* Product registration
* Sales receipt
* Installer's invoice

I completed every step required by their terms, but the manufacturer is denying warranty coverage for the following reasons:

"The invoice was handwritten"
"Installer used a generic invoice"
"Installer used the address of his house"
"Installer is just a random person"
"Installer is not a reputable company"

Nowhere in their terms does it define what a "qualified installer" is. Nor does it state that in order to be "qualified" that you must use expensive letterhead and not handwrite anything out. The manufacturer basically deemed that the pool installer (who has been working in the industry for many years and is contracted out by other large companies) is not reputable because he lives in a modest home, does not have fancy letterhead, does not have a computer and is named "Juan."

Further research reveals that this manufacturer is notorious for denying warranty claims. In addition, the problem I am experiencing with my pump appears to be quite common.

Any advice on the best options I have are greatly appreciated.

 

[Zigner]

Ask your installer to present proof that he is properly licensed to install the pool equipment. Forward that information to the manufacturer.

 

[Sparky9684]

Thanks for the feedback, Zigner. The installer is not licensed. He operates under the contractor's license when he does work for them directly. In this case, I went through him directly.

I can understand the argument of ..."well, if he's not licensed, he is therefore not qualified." However, the manufacturer does not define "qualified." Their terms only state that the installer has to provide an invoice and the equipment must be purchased from a brick and motor store along with proof of purchase - which I did and provided. Besides, one having a license does not necessarily make one "qualified."

Had the installer printed out his invoice vs writing it by hand and put a logo on the top, this would be a non-issue. In this case, the manufacturer is defining "qualified" by how well the installer writes and how pretty his invoice looks.

Any attorneys out there with legal suggestions?

Thank you

 

[Zigner]

Besides, one having a license does not necessarily make one "qualified."

While that may be true, NOT having a license absolutely makes one unqualified (and please notice that I didn't need to put that word in quotes).

 

[Sparky9684]

So when the installer installs a pump under a licensed pool contractor he is qualified to do the job. If he does the same job on his own, he is not qualified? Got it.

I get the risks of using someone without a license (particularly for liability and insurance) and that was my choice. But just to reiterate, the manufacturer is not even requiring that the installer be licensed in order to be qualified. Don't really want to argue anymore over what our opinions are on the definition of "qualified." The point is that the manufacturer left this part open to interpretation and is now using it to its advantage to shirk the warranty responsibility. Worse yet, they keep adding to the criteria of what qualified means - after the fact.

 

[adjusterjack]

I can understand the argument of ..."well, if he's not licensed, he is therefore not qualified." However, the manufacturer does not define "qualified."

In Arizona he has to be licensed to do that kind of work at a price level of over $1000.

He did the work illegally.

He is not "qualified" by any stretch of the imagination.

Not only must he be licensed but he must show is Registrar of Contractors license number on his business cards, invoices and any advertising (even a sign on his truck).

You, Sparky, are out of luck.

 

[Zigner]

So when the installer installs a pump under a licensed pool contractor he is qualified to do the job. If he does the same job on his own, he is not qualified? Got it.

By absolute definition, yes. If one is unqualified (by function of law) to do the install, then there really is no argument to be made that he is qualified, even if "qualified" is not specifically defined.

I get the risks of using someone without a license (particularly for liability and insurance) and that was my choice. But just to reiterate, the manufacturer is not even requiring that the installer be licensed in order to be qualified. Don't really want to argue anymore over what our opinions are on the definition of "qualified." The point is that the manufacturer left this part open to interpretation and is now using it to its advantage to shirk the warranty responsibility. Worse yet, they keep adding to the criteria of what qualified means - after the fact.

I'm glad you're going to stop arguing this. You are wrong. The guy you chose was, legally, unqualified to do the work. You wanted to save a few bucks, so you had the guy do a side job for which he wasn't legally qualified. You rolled the dice and lost.

 

[Sparky9684]

Installer didn't do over $1,000 in labor (and I believe it's $750 actually). Remember - I bought all the equipment from the pool supply place (wasn't just a pump). The other work included electrical, which was done by my electrician who is licensed.

Anyway, I don't think there are any attorneys replying on here since I am looking for contractual legal advice and I am clearly not getting that.

Thanks anyway

 

[Zigner]

Installer didn't do over $1,000 in labor (and I believe it's $750 actually). Remember - I bought all the equipment from the pool supply place (wasn't just a pump). The other work included electrical, which was done by my electrician who is licensed.

Anyway, I don't think there are any attorneys replying on here since I am looking for contractual legal advice and I am clearly not getting that.

Thanks anyway

Actually, what you're not getting is someone who agrees with you. You are clearly getting accurate advice, you just don't want to hear it.

Please read the terms of this forum, at the bottom of every page.

Please feel free to pay an attorney to tell you the same thing.

 

[adjusterjack]

Installer didn't do over $1,000 in labor (and I believe it's $750 actually). Remember - I bought all the equipment from the pool supply place (wasn't just a pump). The other work included electrical, which was done by my electrician who is licensed.

Better read ARS 32-1121 Persons not required to be licensed.

Paragraph 14 applies and exempts:

Any person other than a licensed contractor engaging in any work or operation on one undertaking or project by one or more contracts, for which the aggregate contract price, including labor, materials and all other items,...is less than one thousand dollars. The work or operations that are exempt under this paragraph shall be of a casual or minor nature.

(Note the phrase "aggregate contract price." That's not just the labor portion. Nor was the work of a "casual or minor nature."

Further:

This exemption does not apply:

(a) In any case in which the performance of the work requires a local building permit.

If the job required a permit (even if you didn't get one), he needed a license.

(b) In any case in which the work or construction is only a part of a larger or major operation, whether undertaken by the same or a different contractor, or in which a division of the operation is made in contracts of amounts less than one thousand dollars...for the purpose of evasion of this chapter or otherwise.

According to that, he needed a license because his labor was part of a larger operation, regardless of who else provided what else.

All of the above can be found at:

http://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2016/title-32/section-32-1121/

If you still aren't willing to accept that he was operating illegally I suggest you run your situation by the Registrar of Contractors complaints and investigations section and see what they have to say about it:

https://roc.az.gov/complaints-and-investigations

While you're at it, contact your local Building Department, advise them of the job specs and see if a permit was required.

 

[Sparky9684]

This is my last reply as I am turning the notifications off..

Crazy how this turned into a debate on whether or not the guy who did the work should have been licensed or did the work illegally. I guess I got what I paid for ...

Anyway, I finally got some answers. First, the manufacturer does not require the installer to be licensed (hence, the reason they never brought it up). Instead, they want someone who has been working in the industry for several years to do the install. The handwritten invoice rejection is to prevent DIY'ers botching the equipment and then filing a warranty claim. Second, they don't want people buying the equipment on the internet and pretty much doing the same - luckily I didn't do it. Third, not sure how you deduced that the work was not casual or minor. He replaced equipment - he didn't build me a pump and run all the electrical. Originally I just thought that he didn't know how to do electrical, but apparently had he done that, then he would have performed the work illegally.

Read up on that AZ handyman exemption bill and re-read what I wrote below. And, call a pool supply place and ask them if a person needs to be licensed to replace a pump (in some states they do, like Florida).

Next time I want my question not answered, I will come back here and chat with you guys.

Oh, my pump is now under warranty

Is it legal for you guys to be practicing law without a license? Or, worse ... without a degree?

 

[TimStudiesLaw]

Oh, my pump is now under warranty

and in just 7 short hours.

 

[Sparky9684]

Service company came out earlier and replaced the entire motor. They finished exactly one hour ago. How many hours total now is that? I will let you "attorneys" add that up.

Let me know if you guys still want to challenge me on whether or not I got my pump warrantied and replaced. I will be glad to entertain any type of of wager. Doesn't even have to be monetary - just enough for you guys to eat crow.

How about this:

If I cannot prove what I just stated above, I will take a sledge hammer and smash my entire pump on video and upload it to YouTube. However, If I can prove it, I would like you guys to upload a video to YouTube of yourselves admitting that you like to pretend you are a lawyer, like to give out poor an inaccurate advice, think you know everything but you really don't, get upset when someone proves that you are wrong, and promise to go back to retirement and stop giving out inaccurate advice.

Deal?


Even though I turned off the notifications, I will come back here periodically and checkup on you guys. This is too good to pass up.

 

[Zigner]

I'm glad your problem was resolved to your satisfaction.