principal bullying

[sandysue]

What is the name of your state? CA


this is also tied in with rights of a person w/ a disability under section 504 I believe. My son was diagnosed w/ an anxiety disorder near the end of the school year. Son missed some school but doctor wrote a note saying it is a medical condition. To make a really long story short, the principal tried to bully and intimidate me into allowing him to 'evaluate' my son, in order to 'confirm' the diagnoses. He actually at an IEP meeting first asked me in front of the teacher and other staff member if he could 'hop in my car with me and come to my home' in order to 'make sure it's anxiety'. He said he 'found it hard to believe he had an anxiety disorder bc sometimes he had 'seen him smiling and looking happy during the school day'. I told him that is not how doctors diagnose anxiety, and also with 1,000 students he saw my son maybe 2 minutes passing in the hall. I told him sorry, he has a doctor who is treating him. He refused to accept the doctors standard medical note, written on letterhead with contact info. He demanded to know 'more details' about his anxiety and the doctor had to write a SECOND note, with details in it. I felt that was intruding on his right to some amount of privacy----- he has never had a problem being absent excpet for usual childhood illnesses, and a basic doctor note was alwasy excepted. I was never asked to for example, have the doctor write in the note the specifics, such as how high the fever was ,etc. In this case, it was anxiety related, and the principal treated it very differently than if for ex he had asthma. He tried to bully me by saying if I didnt let him somehow 'confirm' the diagnosis he might have to report me. I told him that would be irresponsible of me to allow a principal try and diagnose an illness or condition. HE seemed to take offense at the fact that I didnt think he was qualified to make that call....i told him I am also not a doctor, its not personal against you, its jsut that i prefer his own doctor to care for him...your a principal, not a doctor. When I gave him the second doctors note he demanded, i requested that he put it in writing for me, that his absence was now deeemed officially excused. HE refused to do so, claiming that 'because attendance is an ongoing matter, I cannot excuse future absences of his." I was so confused,...I was not asking him to excuse FUTURE absences, duh!!! I was asking for that to be excused since I had given him the second dr's note he asked for. He flat refused to do so, saying "I cannot excuse the future absneces he may have". Now, we are in court for custody , me and my ex. THe principal said something in a letter about how my son was truant during that time!!! I do not believe he can do that, can he? Unless he has deemed himself an M.D., somehow able to override a doctors diagnosis, he is as far as I know required to accept the doctor note. How can i get that turned around? Do I need to be a bit tougher and file a letter of complaint, or even threaten a lawsuit to do so?? To me, this was discrmination, whatever his intentions were, he was grossly unfair to me, and my son, and put me through he**What is the name of your state?

 

[sisymay]

Hi Sandy. I posted this on another of your messages so I"ll write it again in case you miss it. PLEASE go to www.schwablearning.org and sign up for free on their 'parent to parent' message board.
There are LOTS of caring people there who WILL help you. They have all been thru crap with schools and help each other. Your situation is very common, corruption in special ed is rampant all across the country....

 

[BelizeBreeze]

File a formal complaint with the Superintendent of the school board and the American Medical Association and write a CERTIFIED (RRR) letter to the principal (copying the superintendent) demanding that the principal cease and desist any and all attempts to 'diagnose' your son as he/she is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

File a formal complaint with the Superintendent of the school board and the American Medical Association and write a CERTIFIED (RRR) letter to the principal (copying the superintendent) demanding that the principal cease and desist any and all attempts to 'diagnose' your son as he/she is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

OP is requesting ADA accommodations for her son and has yet to answer any questions that would indicate that the child has been evaluated by either a child and adolescent psychiarist or Child Psychologist. In order to grant the ADA accommodations there must be some communication between the "doctor" and the school and to allow further diagnostic testing to evaluate the nature of learning, developmental disorders which may appear to be anxiety disorders, so appropriate accommodaitons can be made. There is a difference between "diagnose" and evaluate, a service the school is required to provide for students requesting ADA accommodations. OP kept the child out of school, requiring summer school, then asked to do that as homeschool and didn't do that either so child was held back.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

OP is requesting ADA accommodations for her son and has yet to answer any questions that would indicate that the child has been evaluated by either a child and adolescent psychiarist or Child Psychologist. In order to grant the ADA accommodations there must be some communication between the "doctor" and the school and to allow further diagnostic testing to evaluate the nature of learning, developmental disorders which may appear to be anxiety disorders, so appropriate accommodaitons can be made. There is a difference between "diagnose" and evaluate, a service the school is required to provide for students requesting ADA accommodations. OP kept the child out of school, requiring summer school, then asked to do that as homeschool and didn't do that either so child was held back.

I saw the 'other' post but it affects my answer not one bit. IF the facts are as they are stated, the principal has no authority to practice medicine. that is the only issue I'm addressing here.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I saw the 'other' post but it affects my answer not one bit. IF the facts are as they are stated, the principal has no authority to practice medicine. that is the only issue I'm addressing here.

There is no qualifying diagnosis called, "Anxiety Disorder", the principal can request more information from the doctor and to communicate with the doctor, it is appropriate for the School to evaluate the child for learning and developmental disorders, since OP refused to provide the school with a qualified diagnosis. The principal is not practicing medicine without a license. However, OP writing a letter of complaint to the California Medical Board, not the AMA unless the principal is a member,( they have absolutely no say in the matter), will result in a delay in her child receiving appropriate evaluation in addition to the delays already caused by OP and the CA Medical Board will, also reject the complaint because the principal is not practicing without a license. Since OP is in the middle of a custody battle I suggest they contact their county Superior Court Website and inquire re EC 730 evaluations and homestudies. The problem here is not the principal.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I saw the 'other' post but it affects my answer not one bit. IF the facts are as they are stated, the principal has no authority to practice medicine. that is the only issue I'm addressing here.

Here is an example of a University level Accommodations request, as stated there is not "Anxiety Disorder" so this is a reasonable facsmile:
http://www.sa.ucsb.edu/dsp/ADDHD.htm
and
HIGHLIGHTS OF RECENT ADA/SECTION 504 DECISIONS
(student diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder failed to establish that ... 1999) (school district did not violate the ADA or Section 504 by ...
www.uwlax.edu/DRS/YouAreTheKey/Handouts/RECENTADAandSECTION504DECISIONS.doc

 

[sandysue]

anxiety is a medical disorder, one can find it in any standard medical psychiatric handbook, and is under the DSM-V the categories of psychiatric illness. The doctor also stated, which I didnt' go into here, but the anxiety was a part of a mood disorder, (ala major depression, bipolar ilness, that spectrum of affective mood disorders). The letter was writtne by a qualified and board certified M.D. To clarify, the principal stated that he 'needed to confirm the diagnosis' of anxiety and a mood disorfer. I asked him how he would do so, since he was not a doctor. he said, well, if he seems like he is smilling and 'looks happy' then i will not 'confirm' the diagnosis. I had to tell him politely that it takes at least 8 years in medical school and then residency in child psychiatry to pull that off, and he insisted he was 'qualified'. I already am aware that principals can't play doctor so to speak, my main question was more to do with the fact of if I need to file some complaint or even consider a lawsuit. The heck he put me through was grossly unfair. He also precluded by the way my son from doing summer school. He was approved to do home study with the math program BUT the principal would not allow him to participate in the right math class he was already assigned to. So I do not buy that somehow I am responsible for the summer school, he flat refused to exchange the mathbook for the special ed math book. He did other things also, such as the IEP meeting, he left a message on my voicemail telling me to be at a meeting at a certain day and time. This is not standard or accepted policy. The school is to call parent and set up a mutual time at least 2 weeks ahead of time, not leave an 'announcement dictating the parent show up at a meeting in 6 days time. When I told him I could not make the time and needed anothe rtime, he took pleasure in telling me that he 'couldnt reschedule the meeting because quote "he had already scheduled the meeting". I had to check w/ the district who sheepishly informed me that no, he's not supposed to do that. I sent a fax saying I could not attend that time, to the district and some head honcho let him know what the drill was and it was quietly reschedule at a mutual time for both parties.

 

[sandysue]

Belizebreeze,

'principal is not qualified to practice medicine...' my thoughts exactly and what thsi all hinged on. When my son was absent for other illness over theyears, theschool only is ssupposed to get a doctors note, NOT demand to confirm the illness t hemselves. THis whole thing was veyr simple--- bc of the nature of the illness it was discriminated by principal. If he had asthma attacks you can bet he would not have demanded to come to my home and 'confrim the diagnosis'. I found it very incomfortable to be asked by the principal at the meeting if he could 'hop in my car and come home with me...'.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

YOU ARE WRONG. The DSM-IV-TR does not have 1 "Anxiety disorder" and anxiety disorders are not in and of themselves disabling or entitle your child to an accommodation in every instance. There are many professionals who are qualified to determin the special needs of a child, not only a physician. You have not cited a single qualifying fact to entitle your son to any accommodation. If he had Asthma you wouldn't be requiring a special math book as an accommodation and anxiety or even a mood disorder doesn't require a special math book, and why should he be anxious if he is safely at home with you as his teacher? If this was a competent doctor, they would have written the report in the appropriate manner and you would have allowed the school the opportunity to ask the doctor for specifics so the school could accommodate your child, but your child's education is not your agenda, it is defending yourself in a custody battle and having an excuse for your child being truant. The GAL/minors counsel will look at all of this and your excuses will be very clear to the judge who regularily hears the same excuses. What do you think the doctor is going to say when they are subpoenaed? You will have to allow the doctor to be cross examined by your ex's attorney If you make applicaiton to the Regional Center, http://www.dds.ca.gov/rc/rc369.cfm I suspect they will deny your son's application but that is an option, they might just find something qualifying your child for special ed.

 

[sandysue]

what I said was that the anxiety was part of a mood disorder and that the principal said he needed to 'confirm the diagnosis'. Confirming a medical diagnosis is not what principals are in business to do. Why not start 'confirming' asthma, cerebal palsy, etc.? The principal also would not accept the doctors note. He demanded she write another note. Doctor told me she has nevr had a pricnipal insist on a certain 'type' of note, the one she wrote was a standard doctors note, with all her contact info on it.

Mood disorders and anxiety are both a bonafide psychiatric medical condition. I am looking right now at a psychiatric handbook, it's in there....

People should not be allowed to pick and choose which illnesses are 'okay' to be absent with. That is what doctors are for. DId you miss the part also where I wrote this principal asked me in front of people at a meeting if he 'could hop in my car and come home with me'?? The 2 educational attorneys i contacted in the middle of this were just mouth hanging open shocked at his unorthodox 'requests'.

 

[sandysue]

retmex,

i'm sorry, I realized that there was a gap in our discussion and want to clarify that my son ALREADY had an IEP from before, thsi had nothing to do with his recent absence due to severe anxiety and a mood disorder. The IEP was already in place from over a year ago, and the mathbook was something he needed for a class he was already previously placed into.
I can see where the confusion came in, and i just re-read your post and saw that...anyways, to reiterate, the IEP is a seperate issue from the fact that he was absent. He was absent at the end of the year, for a short amount of time and had nothing to do with any IEP formulations. The principal did not want to accept the doctors note for his absence, and would not state it was excused. I asked him why, there is a doctors note, he said he 'doubted' the doctor's diagnosis, because he had seen my son smiling and looking social a couple of times. (principal has 1000 kids to oversee and only would see my son maybe 5 minutes top a week passing in hallway..) based on that, he 'doubted' doctors' diagnosis. He said he would need to confirm the diagnosis himself by 'taking a peek at him'. Huh? I dont know why psychiatrists bother with all that medical school if all you have to do is 'take a peek' at someone to diagnose someone. I told him it would be irresponsible of me to allow an administrator examine or confirm a diagnosis. He took offense that I did not think him qualified to say whether or not he has an affective mood disorder and anxiety. He then tried to bully me by inferring that i was somehow bound to let him do so, and that I should let him come home with me.
Unless we live in Alice in Wonderland, none of that is school policy, or even legal. YOu cannot bully a parent into letting an administrator make a call on whether your child has a psychiatric illness. He also made up his own rules along the way with other things, such as saying he could not cancel a meeting because it had 'arealdy been scheduled', after having left an announcement on my voicemail to show up at his office on a certain day and time which I was not able to do. The district got nervous abuot taht one and apologized to me, but he never explained or tried to apologize for that. He said that he 'only had one time all summer he could meet with me' so therefore, it was okay for him to just make the announcement and whether or not I can make it, too bad.
taht is just not the way schools work....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The only one who is confused is you.

You have repeated the same thing over and over and over again, no matter how many times you repeat it, doesn't make my answer any different, nor can you get my name right.

By the way I am qualified to diagnose a child and I am not a physician although I do hold a doctorate. The fact remains, your child is not diagnosed with anything requiring him to have a special math book while you are teaching him at home. The principal is acting within their authority to verify the doctor's note or report before excusing an absense. I suspect the principal was trying to mimick you hoping that you would eventually get it. You said the contact information was on the note but you refused to allow the principal to contact the doctor, therefore the principal is within their rights to not excuse the absense. You don't need to look for a psychiatric handbook, if your child had a qualified diagnosis, not requiring further verification, you would have provided it, you are trying to do the same thing to me as you were doing to the principal but it isn't going to work. The person responsible for your child's truancy is you. The person responsible for your child not completing their homeschool/summer school math, is you. You have put your child in a very bad place because of your custody battle and your child will come to resent you in the end. You really have to learn to play well with others. I can imagine what your relative must have said about you to the GAL.

 

[sandysue]

you do not really need to be hostile.....the point i was saying is that you tied the two issues together. The fact that my son was in a special ed math class has nothing to do with his absence at the end of the year, and i was clarifying that.

his absnece had nothing to do with math, or needing the proper math workbook, period.
he was absent bc of a medical condition.
principal refused to honor the doctors note, and insisted that he be allowed to come home with me to 'confirm' (his words not mine) my son's diagnosis.

he became insulted when i said i'd rather not have him 'hop in mycar and come home with me' and that seemed to fuel the way he treated me after that. He said that i 'had' to let him confirm teh diagnosis and threatned me when I said sorry, he has his own doctor. Even after i provided a second doctors note that he insisted i get, not per school policy, he would still not deem it excused. I asked him why not and he said 'because attendance is an ongoing matter and I cannot excuse the future'/.

i believe he has it in for single women who are custodial parents, it was too personal to him, he seemed to take it up with too much interest and gusto, where most principals would try to be discreet and distantly professional, he seemed to take on a weird interest in me and my ex.

anyways, maybe it's not clear still, maybe it is, but that's the jist of the attendance thing. My son was ALREADY on an IEP and ALREADY had a special mathclass approved-- in summer school he would not let him have the math book from the class h was signed up for.
so it ws two seperate issues-- 1) principal made up his own rules about excusing a pupil's absence - school policy states that child bring a medical doctors' note which he did. but then principal still wouldnt excuse it and instead asked to come to my home to 'confirm' the diagnosis

2) my son had alrady been placed in a certain math class, and during summer the school would not give him the mathbook from THAT class, that he was already in, he was given a mathbook for another math class....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Same song different verse, a litle louder, a little worse.
The answer is the same.

Your child was in summer school because you didn't send him to school, thus making him truant.
Then you wouldn't allow the principal to verify the doctor's note as allowed by law, thus the two are linked together.

You refused to allow the doctor to communicate with the doctor to confirm a vague and non specific diagnosis.

I am sure the child's doctor is welcoming the principal's call, it is you who doesn't want the principal to verify the diagnosis, because it does not qualify as a medical excuse.

When you refused to cooporate, you requested and were allowed to homeschool your child, the school provided an appropriate text book.

You refused to use the materials the school provided.
You brought this on yourself.
The principal is interested in you and your ex because you are putting your child in the middle of your custody battle, making him a pawn.






The one who loses in all of this is your son and it is your fault.
Don't worry, none of this will be wasted on the minor's attorney.